Kratom!

julienl

New Member
I’ve had CFS for 13 years now and would like to share what has helped me. I’ve tried many supplements (I have two giant garbage bags of supplements I’ve tried, thousands of dollars worth) and none of them helped, Kratom is an exception. Kratom has been unbelievable it has made all the differences. It hasn’t cured me of CFS, but it makes things not just bearable but sometimes even somewhat ‘norml

There are many types of Kratom and many brands. Be careful because some make you sleepy (and alleviate pain) while others give you focus and energy. The success I've found is with Bumble Bee brand ‘White Borneo’ (wakes me up, allows me to focus), and Krave brand ‘Green Mallay’. After much experimenting I’ve found green mallay to be the best

It’s been used for hundreds of years and from what I’ve read it doesn’t have negative effects nor does it keep you up at night. I don’t notice any ‘head changes’, so unlike aderal, cocaine, speed etc it isn’t psychoactive or mood altering (except for improving mood from feeling so much better).

When I don’t have it I don’t have withdrawal symptoms, so it’s not physically addictive however without it I’m back to feeling full cfs, so it is addictive in as much as you could say medicine is, in that I definitely rely on it.

My search for addressing CFS continues, but at least I am no longer in a state of complete misery

It can be found at some tobacconists, some with better selection than others, or you could call local tobacconists, or order from paylesskratom (dot) com, for instance I got Bumble Bee White Borneo Powder 250 grams for $40

I spend about $100 a month on it. Sometimes more if I haven’t ordered online and get it from local shops

Note that the red 'Maeng Da' kind helps my fiance with her fibromyalgia and neuropathy pain MORE than vicodin and hydrocodone and allows her to sleep as well. Soooo thankful to have found Kratom. There are suppliers who ship fresh kratom which haven't yet tried such as https://katsbotanicals.com/product/white-bali-kratom-powder

It comes in pill or powder form. Given the choice, definitely go for the pill type as it tastes awful, however if the right kind is available but only in powdered form it is better to have that than none at all. The dosage is 6 pills, it takes about 20 minutes to feel the effects, it’s recommended you start with 4 pills and see how you feel, otherwise a scoop or two and wash it down with coffee

If you find it helpful, you may want to consider getting politically active as there’s moves to ban it https://wakeup-world.com/2016/10/01...stic-health-herb-kratom-now-a-schedule-i-drug

Another supplement I've found helpful is Liquid IV 'Hydration Multiplier' (you can read about on page here) sometimes with B12 mixed in (read about on page here)

That and STOPPING Cymbalta (SSRI). Don't go off your meds without doctor advice and guidance, but that has been my greatest progress was stopping Cymbalta (and switching to Venlafaxine

Xifaxan was immensely helpful towards IBS relief, and I can not recommend it enough!

I like the 'Hydration Multiplier' as with the case of many CFS patients, I feel incredibly thirsty all the time, and it quenches that almost insatiable thirst

There's a supplement 'andrographis' that appears to have CURED several CFS sufferers. I have and will take it, though I'm afraid to (given the typical initial reaction, yikes!)
 

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IssacMoyer

New Member
I had a similar syndrome, and it took me a lot of effort to get rid of it. I began to suffer from chronic fatigue because I worked a lot and rarely rested; I lost my humanity and became a robot with the sole purpose of making more money. But now, I have reconsidered my values and always find time to rest. Moreover, I often drink marijuana-based cocktails after a hard day's work. I found the recipe online; click for more info. This cocktail helps me to relax.
 

julienl

New Member
Hi Issac, thanks for the reply. There is a psych profile associated with CFS that often it affects 'strivers' including pro athletes, so those who wind up having to change their entire worldview the most, I had that same experience as you, there was a lady I wanted to marry who was convinced I wouldn't economically ammount to anything so to prove her wrong I ran a startup for 4 years burning the candle at both ends I developed CFS years later but it's likely connected
I'm glad you found a cannabis help, for me even the non THC laden samplings (such as delta9) are too much putting my OCD off kilter, otherwise I too would use that. Please let us all know your hopefull progress, thanks, J
 

julienl

New Member
I would like to share what a user on a forum said regarding a post I had made regarding Kratom
"
Thanks for reporting your experience, @julienl42. Kratom is a really interesting drug, and while I feel like it's perhaps something worth considering for many people with ME/CFS, it has a number of downsides as well.

Before I developed ME/CFS, I used to use kratom occasionally as a recreational drug, perhaps once a week at most. I was never a big fan of other opioids because of how impairing and demotivating they were, but kratom had none of those negative effects. There is no doubt in my mind that kratom is superior to opioids when it comes to sustainable, responsible recreational use, and for many medical purposes as well (excepting especially severe pain that kratom may not be strong enough to treat).

Likely the most significant way kratom alkaloids differ from traditional opioids is that they do not cause much beta-arrestin recruitment. Beta-arrestin is a class of proteins that is involved in the homeostasis of G-protein coupled receptors, which includes opioid receptors. Normally, when opioid receptors are stimulated excessively, beta-arrestin is produced and subsequently desensitizes the receptor, as well as opposing the downstream effects of opioid receptor activation (here's a good review of the topic if you want to know more details). Blocking beta-arrestin reduces the development of opioid tolerance, and also as a nice bonus reduces respiratory depression caused by opioids.

However, kratom still absolutely produces tolerance, and cessation from long term use can absolutely cause withdrawal. You need only visit the 'Quitting Kratom' subreddit to see countless accounts of people having difficulty attempting to remove this drug from their life. Is kratom as pernicious as traditional opioids? Not even close. But it's a bit irresponsible to say that it's not physically addictive. People vary in how quickly they develop physical dependence of various drugs, and it may be that you're on the luckier end of the spectrum, or that you haven't been taking kratom quite long enough or consistently enough to develop a tolerance yet. But you should be very cautious going forward - even with kratom, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

When it comes down to it, there are numerous mechanisms through which drug tolerance/dependence develops, and beta-arrestin is only one of them. JNK and PKC are other proteins involved in desensitization, and receptor activation usually stimulates a number of downstream opponent processes as well. Not to mention that much further downstream, opioid receptor activation modulates dopamine, GABA, and glutamate receptors, and these receptors are all subject to their own homeostatic mechanisms.

Even outside of the issue of tolerance, opioids including kratom can cause negative effects that may be especially significant for people with ME/CFS. For instance, opioid use is often implicated in endocrine dysfunction, resulting in reduced cortisol levels when used in the long-term. Opioids also cause constipation, which could be a problem as many with ME/CFS also have IBS/dysmotility-type symptoms. These are the two reasons that currently I am staying away from kratom. But it does depend a lot per person, and effective treatment for pain may outweigh the potential risks of this drug. I don't mean to come across as overly negative - I've always been a big proponent of kratom, but you do need to understand the risks and I think many with ME/CFS are disproportionately dissuaded by risk.

One other thing I should mention is about kratom vendors and strains. You mention certain strains working better for you, and for sure there are differences. But mainly, the only reliable differences between vendors are between 'red', 'green', 'white', and 'yellow' strains. These labels describe different drying and curing processes that are performed in kratom leaves that result in different balances of alkaloids to a somewhat reliable extent. However, 'point of origin' labels like 'Malay', 'Borneo', 'Indo', 'Thai', etc. are pretty much a fabrication 100% of the time. Usually a vendor will take product coming from a few different plantation and arbitrarily give them these labels. So you end up getting 'Malay' kratom that feels a little different from 'Borneo' kratom, because they are from different plantations, but the comparison will not hold when you get from a different vendor, or sometimes even from the same vendor a few months later."
 

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