Adult autism? Huh?

[ThereseFlower]

I did check on some old posts on this subject, but still feel confused. I have been ill for over 27 years with ME/CFIDS/FM/MCS, etc..., but recently scored strong on an autism self-test. Never have I ever been tested for any such thing, but will admit that the multiplicity of symptoms which have assailed me since becoming ill years ago could cause one to wonder about various diagnoses as a result. Is it ME brain damage? Does someone either have autism either diagnosed or not diagnosed all their life, but just never know it? Can you develop it later in life due to a brain injury or inflammation? Have you ever heard of this in serious CFIDS/ME research?

 

[Baz493]

Most doctors just go through the paces in their practices; doing only the minimum necessary to earn their wages. That's why a lot of us know their line; 'I'm sure it's nothing. Just go home, drink lots of water, and get plenty of rest', by heart. Children are more likely to be diagnosed by either their parents or teachers than they are their doctors. A former friend had to fight with her sons doctors to get his condition recognised. Teachers have only become educated about autism in the last ten to fifteen years and many of them are still oblivious to it. Many people low on the spectrum, like myself, have been able to function sufficiently well in society that no one has recognised the issue at all. People just consider us eccentric. I still find myself having to prove to physicians that I am not within the 'normal' spectrum range. There is contention among researchers over whether it is possible that autism can develop later in life but I agree with the researchers who argue that professionals are simply incompetent at diagnosing the condition.

 

[ThereseFlower]

Most doctors just go through the paces in their practices; doing only the minimum necessary to earn their wages. That's why a lot of us know their line; 'I'm sure it's nothing. Just go home, drink lots of water, and get plenty of rest', by heart. Children are more likely to be diagnosed by either their parents or teachers than they are their doctors. A former friend had to fight with her sons doctors to get his condition recognised. Teachers have only become educated about autism in the last ten to fifteen years and many of them are still oblivious to it. Many people low on the spectrum, like myself, have been able to function sufficiently well in society that no one has recognised the issue at all. People just consider us eccentric. I still find myself having to prove to physicians that I am not within the 'normal' spectrum range. There is contention among researchers over whether it is possible that autism can develop later in life but I agree with the researchers who argue that professionals are simply incompetent at diagnosing the condition.

I think you are correct! I just don't know how to get the helps I really need. It can be scary. Here I am 58yrs. Old, never awarded disability, timed out of work quarters, and not a penny of my own income. I even feel resented at the local clinic for the uninsured because they insist on charging me based on my family members income regardless of how tight things are for her with all her health problems. This results in me not going in for visits when I am supposed to which angers the staff who want all the annual fees met. It's a sad commentary 😔 on our health care system. I have to think of my ill 86 yr. old loved one and her needs. Doctor's do not realize what we are up against.
What do you do for adult autism in M.E.?

 

[Baz493]

I am in a similar situation due to work exposure induced disability and illness. I had ME a couple of decades ago, due to employment exposure to trichloroethylene, and was forced to do all of my own research to prove it to doctors. None of them would get off of their butts to even investigate. I was lucky enough to find the book 'Tired all the time' by Dr Ronald L Hoffman, an expert in chronic fatigue, in a second hand bookstore. It was also just a lucky coincidence that the previous owner of the book had the same issue as myself, with the result that the book fell open to exactly the page I needed; describing a range of toxic exposures inducing chronic fatigue which included the trichloroethylene. Medical research into toxic exposures and the causes of disease, which is available online, has advanced a long way since then and I have now been able to provide physicians with very detailed explanations of the biochemical interactions inducing the fatigue, as well as the explanation for how exposure to the chemical temporarily lifts that fatigue. Doctors almost always know absolutely nothing about toxic exposures and also hate acknowledging any diseases involving gram negative bacteria, which are simply too hard for pathology clinics to identify. Doctors are also almost ignorant when it comes to diet and allergies. It took me finding the book I mentioned, and then self-testing, to identify my own gluten allergy. Dr Hoffman describes it as being like carrying bricks. You may be able to carry a single brick for hours before fatiguing but try carrying two or three and you're only going to make it a short distance. That's why I kept researching my own health, to keep trying to eliminate any additional 'bricks' I might have been carrying.

 

[ThereseFlower]

I wondered why one day when I was exposed to strong smelling chemicals, I was afterwards able to leave there and go food shopping with a clear energy mind and not feeling fatigued. It was very temporary feeling, and rather odd given my MCS symptoms usually make my fatigue and also insomnia worse. Chemicals are strange things. I must have accidentally breathed the right one that day. It all seems so inconsistent though. 😕 Sometimes I do not know what's next. I am glad you finally found some answers and someone who would listen.

 

[Baz493]

Trichloroethylene has the effect of chemically blocking normal cellular aerobic respiration as the source of energy production. However, when you are exposed to it, it uses a different pathway to improve the glycolytic (without oxygen) process for production of energy using fat. You really only get the impression that everything is normal again, rather than anything substantial. Similar things can occur with exposures to a range of chemicals and microbial sources. It's likely that you are going to be better off with doing your own research on your condition than that you are going to be lucky enough to find a doctor who actually understands chronic fatigue well enough to help you. A good place to start is Dr Hoffman's website, which has a lot of good information at no charge.

When my current disability commenced I was looking at all kinds of possible conditions but it eventually seems likely to be diagnosed as Parkinson's. I had to do a ton of research to learn the contents of the coating sprays I was exposed to and then to learn what effects inhalation of those contents had on the body. Turns out that engineered silica nanoparticles cross the blood brain barrier almost immediately and kill the neurons which produce dopamine. It could be confused with ME but, having already had that, I knew immediately that it was something different. Since doctors have never even heard of engineered silica nanoparticles before, despite them being used in industry for decades, I am being forced to jump through hoops to prove everything. There are no shortcuts for patients if your not lucky with finding an extraordinary physician.

 

[Mystic]

Just a comment on the FM --- there is a Dr Pridigen who has discovered that many FM people have an HSV1 "ongoing" infection of the vagus nerve. Its inflammation due to the virus is the cause of the FM pain (in many.) He is coming up with a patented (of course) combo of two drugs that fight the viral infection and have given, after about two months, quite a few people relief. Of note to me was that in the trials to date, more people in the placebo group dropped out than in the drug group. My caveat is that you don't know what was in the placebo, that people might have reacted to. However, if you have FM/CFS/ME, it would be worth your while to go do some searching on Pridigen and is IMC-1 drug combo. I bet it is possible to find out what that combo is that works, and just get going with it. Too bad its in the "get rich off the drug" pipeline, but that is "health care" today.

 

[ThereseFlower]

Trichloroethylene has the effect of chemically blocking normal cellular aerobic respiration as the source of energy production. However, when you are exposed to it, it uses a different pathway to improve the glycolytic (without oxygen) process for production of energy using fat. You really only get the impression that everything is normal again, rather than anything substantial. Similar things can occur with exposures to a range of chemicals and microbial sources. It's likely that you are going to be better off with doing your own research on your condition than that you are going to be lucky enough to find a doctor who actually understands chronic fatigue well enough to help you. A good place to start is Dr Hoffman's website, which has a lot of good information at no charge.

When my current disability commenced I was looking at all kinds of possible conditions but it eventually seems likely to be diagnosed as Parkinson's. I had to do a ton of research to learn the contents of the coating sprays I was exposed to and then to learn what effects inhalation of those contents had on the body. Turns out that engineered silica nanoparticles cross the blood brain barrier almost immediately and kill the neurons which produce dopamine. It could be confused with ME but, having already had that, I knew immediately that it was something different. Since doctors have never even heard of engineered silica nanoparticles before, despite them being used in industry for decades, I am being forced to jump through hoops to prove everything. There are no shortcuts for patients if your not lucky with finding an extraordinary physician.

I have early Parkinson's symptoms too, but they almost seem to come and go. Thanks for the information.

 

[Baz493]

If you do have Parkinson's then it's likely you would have worked in some industry where you would have been exposed to toxic inhalations. The most commonly identified industries are farming and office work but, with the rate of Parkinson's diagnoses having doubled in the last twenty years, its likely that the range of industries using such toxic chemicals has increased. I worked in the glass industry, where companies aren't required to protect workers from the silica nanoparticle sprays because they had been regarded as being safe. All of the relevant research into their toxicity has only been published in the last five years so all of the workers who developed symptoms went into the mental health category, which was where they were trying to dump me until I was able to provide the physicians with evidence of the toxicity of the exposures and their correlation to my symptoms. Now I'm used to the doctors having shocked looks on their faces.

 

[ThereseFlower]

If you do have Parkinson's then it's likely you would have worked in some industry where you would have been exposed to toxic inhalations. The most commonly identified industries are farming and office work but, with the rate of Parkinson's diagnoses having doubled in the last twenty years, its likely that the range of industries using such toxic chemicals has increased. I worked in the glass industry, where companies aren't required to protect workers from the silica nanoparticle sprays because they had been regarded as being safe. All of the relevant research into their toxicity has only been published in the last five years so all of the workers who developed symptoms went into the mental health category, which was where they were trying to dump me until I was able to provide the physicians with evidence of the toxicity of the exposures and their correlation to my symptoms. Now I'm used to the doctors having shocked looks on their faces.

Baz:
Good for you for putting those looks on their faces.
I worked in a large cheap shoe store where we had hundreds of cheaply glued third-world country shoes that made me ill. I was still young then and didn't have ME yet. Over time I recovered, but later got sick again working in a hospital that I suspect was a bit of a 'sick building '. I became so ill I had to leave that job with CFIDS/ME, FM, MCS, EMF sickness, endometriosis, and more. I was never awarded disability and never worked full-time ever again.
I know a couple who I think worked in salon nails work, probably hair color chemicals too who both appear to have Parkinson's.

 

[Baz493]

There are so many different, and toxic, ingredients which could have been used in the construction of those shoes that it's impossible to identify any specific ingredients for study. The use of synthetic leathers, glues, petrochemical rubbers, etc, means that a range of diseases is possible. I took a quick look and found that renal issues and cancer are more common consequences. You mention the couple you know, who worked in nail salons. I used to absolutely hate walking past those places. The smell of the formaldehyde made it almost impossible for me to breathe around them. Formaldehyde is one of the more commonly used chemicals causing problems in shoe allergies so it's probably a good place to start your own search for answers. The chemical is in both shoe manufacture and hospitals. The research into this looks similar to research into silica nanoparticles did last year with indications that it induces non-specific brain damage. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33400181/ The direct connection between the silica nanoparticle inhalation, striatum neuronal death, lowered dopamine production, and Parkinson's was only confirmed early this year. The striatum sits just above the nasal passages so inhalation of a lot of substances are likely to induce neuronal death in the area, so inducing Parkinson's disease. Formaldehyde definitely kills neurons in the hippocampus. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300483X20302894 So it's regarded as an indirect route between formaldehyde inhalation and Parkinson's disease. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12815657/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29589283/ Alpha synuclein aggregation is the standard measure for assessing Parkinson's disease. Similar research to that last article had been published a few years ago in relation to silica nanoparticles but wasn't confirmed until February this year. It appears that the confirmation on the formaldehyde article may still be pending. Doing searches using google scholar is likely to provide more specific information, as the articles which appear are already peer reviewed.

 

[ThereseFlower]

There are so many different, and toxic, ingredients which could have been used in the construction of those shoes that it's impossible to identify any specific ingredients for study. The use of synthetic leathers, glues, petrochemical rubbers, etc, means that a range of diseases is possible. I took a quick look and found that renal issues and cancer are more common consequences. You mention the couple you know, who worked in nail salons. I used to absolutely hate walking past those places. The smell of the formaldehyde made it almost impossible for me to breathe around them. Formaldehyde is one of the more commonly used chemicals causing problems in shoe allergies so it's probably a good place to start your own search for answers. The chemical is in both shoe manufacture and hospitals. The research into this looks similar to research into silica nanoparticles did last year with indications that it induces non-specific brain damage. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33400181/ The direct connection between the silica nanoparticle inhalation, striatum neuronal death, lowered dopamine production, and Parkinson's was only confirmed early this year. The striatum sits just above the nasal passages so inhalation of a lot of substances are likely to induce neuronal death in the area, so inducing Parkinson's disease. Formaldehyde definitely kills neurons in the hippocampus. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300483X20302894 So it's regarded as an indirect route between formaldehyde inhalation and Parkinson's disease. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12815657/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29589283/ Alpha synuclein aggregation is the standard measure for assessing Parkinson's disease. Similar research to that last article had been published a few years ago in relation to silica nanoparticles but wasn't confirmed until February this year. It appears that the confirmation on the formaldehyde article may still be pending. Doing searches using google scholar is likely to provide more specific information, as the articles which appear are already peer reviewed.

Wow! That's a lot of good folliw-up for me to check into. Thank you!

 

[Not dead yet!]

I just want to mention that many chemical sensitivities can be outright cured by a high enough dose of vitamins. If it was a simple as that, nobody would have ME/CFS. Many of us have already tried high dose vitamins. They help but it's not a cure.

This has been tallked about publicly since the 1970s, but by the 1990s it was already a national program of educating the public about vitamins: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/05/...n-ames-strong-views-on-origins-of-cancer.html That doctor is why you care about Vitamin D today. He set the correct levels of Iron for vitamins, and he's the reason we know that most people in the US have magnesium deficiency. There are a ton of his videos on youtube.

If chemical sensitivities were the cause of ME/CFS, then the cure is vitamins and anyone with ME/CFS who tried that would be cured and they'd have told us and we'd all be cured.

In chemical sensitivities I'm not including "forever chemicals" because there's no easy way to excrete them from the body. But I haven't heard of a way to undo the damage they do either. So we're still back at square 1 with chemicals.

 

[Baz493]

No worries ThereseFlower, I know what it's like when everyone presses you for answers, about why you're ill or unable to do normal things, which you don't have. I completely agree with Not dead yet; I have used a range of dietary interventions which can act like band aids for the problems. My own favourite has long been grape seed extract, a really powerful but relatively cheap antioxidant. I didn't find that it worked with the chronic fatigue though. It may be worth taking a look at the MTHFR gene mutation as well. https://mthfrgenehealth.com/mthfr-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cfs/ This mutation impedes absorption and combination of certain B vitamins in people who have it. I didn't remember this before but it relates to both chronic fatigue and autism, as well as many other health issues. https://autism-and-treatment.com/heck-mthfr-gene-mutation-autism/

 

[ThereseFlower]

I know about the expensive skin biopsy and also the DATscan for help in diag owing Parkinson's, but isn't there a blood test you mentioned? I can't seem to find that reference, but my eyes just don't want to focus sometimes and my brain, dizzying.

 

[Baz493]

ThereseFlower, I'm not sure which blood test you were referring to; was that post meant for a different thread?

Not dead yet, I made a point of looking out my notes on trichloroethylene which I put together for my legal case against the company I worked for. It explains the mechanism by which the halocarbon solvent blocks normal cellular aerobic respiration, so inducing glycolytic energy production and chronic fatigue. It is able to prevent the formation of a specific enzyme, pyruvate dehydrogenase, required for the Krebs cycle to work. I only learned about the connection between trichloroethylene inhalation and Parkinson's disease after I wrote it.

I would leave work filled with energy but be completely exhausted by the time I reached home; I would remain in this state until I returned to work again. At the time I had no idea what the cause of this was and physicians, whom I repeatedly consulted about it, just told me not to worry about it. Towards the end of the year 2000 I stumbled across a book on chronic fatigue (Tired all the time, by Dr Ronald L Hoffman) which detailed how trichloroethylene (TCE), a solvent which we used in enormous quantity in our job, replaced a part of the Krebs cycle whenever someone is exposed to it. It inhibits pyruvate dehydrogenase via its metabolite, dichloroacetic acid, triggering the glycoxylate shunt; bypassing the carbon dioxide producing steps of the tricarboxylic cycle for energy production. Another trichloroethylene metabolite, S-(1,2-Dichlorovinyl)-L-cysteine (abbv; DCVC), stimulates compensatory utilization of glycerol, lipid, and amino acid metabolism which provides intermediate substrates which enter downstream in the glycolytic pathway or the tricarboxylic acid cycle. The consequence of this is that, during periods of direct exposure, the bodies energy levels are temporarily restored to normal before they collapse again after exposure ceases. The metabolite also has the effect of inducing kidney damage, including being linked to toxic nephropathy. This occurs by activating CD4+ T cells which promote immunoglobulin G (IgG; a lupus related antibody which induces lupus anticoagulant syndrome; a condition which I have tested positive for) production. The IgG has been found to bind to foreign molecules attached to podocytes in the kidneys, so inducing membranous nephropathy. Trichloroethylene, as a halocarbon possessing dioxin-like properties, is both genotoxic and mutagenic. Polymorphisms of the NAT2 (TCE is mutagenic of this gene) and GSTmu genes (TCE induced renal toxicity occurs primarily through GST conjugation and bioactivation by renal cysteine-lyase) have also been identified as risk factors in the development of membranous nephropathy as a consequence of hydrocarbon exposures. Trichloroethylene is the solvent, previously used in office correction fluid, which was found to be the cause of officeworkers becoming extremely fatigued and sick many years ago. Oxalic acid is another metabolite of trichloroethylene and is also implicated in the development of nephropathy. Trichloroethylene is also linked to the development of metabolic Parkinson’s disease.



During the 1940’s and 50’s a researcher named Eugene Kennedy formulated the Kennedy pathway for phospholipid synthesis. This found that solvent exposures resulted in aberrant phospholipid synthesis of types such as phosphorylcholine and phosphorylethanolamine which have both been linked to the development of both antiphospholipid and lupus antibodies such as I have tested positive for in regards to my blood clotting.

 

[ThereseFlower]

ThereseFlower, I'm not sure which blood test you were referring to; was that post meant for a different thread?

Not dead yet, I made a point of looking out my notes on trichloroethylene which I put together for my legal case against the company I worked for. It explains the mechanism by which the halocarbon solvent blocks normal cellular aerobic respiration, so inducing glycolytic energy production and chronic fatigue. It is able to prevent the formation of a specific enzyme, pyruvate dehydrogenase, required for the Krebs cycle to work. I only learned about the connection between trichloroethylene inhalation and Parkinson's disease after I wrote it.

I would leave work filled with energy but be completely exhausted by the time I reached home; I would remain in this state until I returned to work again. At the time I had no idea what the cause of this was and physicians, whom I repeatedly consulted about it, just told me not to worry about it. Towards the end of the year 2000 I stumbled across a book on chronic fatigue (Tired all the time, by Dr Ronald L Hoffman) which detailed how trichloroethylene (TCE), a solvent which we used in enormous quantity in our job, replaced a part of the Krebs cycle whenever someone is exposed to it. It inhibits pyruvate dehydrogenase via its metabolite, dichloroacetic acid, triggering the glycoxylate shunt; bypassing the carbon dioxide producing steps of the tricarboxylic cycle for energy production. Another trichloroethylene metabolite, S-(1,2-Dichlorovinyl)-L-cysteine (abbv; DCVC), stimulates compensatory utilization of glycerol, lipid, and amino acid metabolism which provides intermediate substrates which enter downstream in the glycolytic pathway or the tricarboxylic acid cycle. The consequence of this is that, during periods of direct exposure, the bodies energy levels are temporarily restored to normal before they collapse again after exposure ceases. The metabolite also has the effect of inducing kidney damage, including being linked to toxic nephropathy. This occurs by activating CD4+ T cells which promote immunoglobulin G (IgG; a lupus related antibody which induces lupus anticoagulant syndrome; a condition which I have tested positive for) production. The IgG has been found to bind to foreign molecules attached to podocytes in the kidneys, so inducing membranous nephropathy. Trichloroethylene, as a halocarbon possessing dioxin-like properties, is both genotoxic and mutagenic. Polymorphisms of the NAT2 (TCE is mutagenic of this gene) and GSTmu genes (TCE induced renal toxicity occurs primarily through GST conjugation and bioactivation by renal cysteine-lyase) have also been identified as risk factors in the development of membranous nephropathy as a consequence of hydrocarbon exposures. Trichloroethylene is the solvent, previously used in office correction fluid, which was found to be the cause of officeworkers becoming extremely fatigued and sick many years ago. Oxalic acid is another metabolite of trichloroethylene and is also implicated in the development of nephropathy. Trichloroethylene is also linked to the development of metabolic Parkinson’s disease.



During the 1940’s and 50’s a researcher named Eugene Kennedy formulated the Kennedy pathway for phospholipid synthesis. This found that solvent exposures resulted in aberrant phospholipid synthesis of types such as phosphorylcholine and phosphorylethanolamine which have both been linked to the development of both antiphospholipid and lupus antibodies such as I have tested positive for in regards to my blood clotting.

Wow! You certainly have managed to educate yourself. I have a friend whose son suffers with an auto-immune disease that causes his blood to clot abnormally, so he has to stay on Warfarin. He has trouble with wound healing as a result.
It's nice that you can back up your case with such detailed data. Sad that you have been so exposed and effected so. You seem to be still able to comprehend and take in a lot of detailed information, so impressive for someone with these sufferings.
Thank you again for the good information. Now I am wondering 🤔 if I heard about the Parkinson's blood test elsewhere since I wasn't able to locate it in this thread either.

 

[Baz493]

I think that most people just accept some level of medical gaslighting in their lives, with doctors simply dismissing patients claims of being ill. If that wasn't the case then most people wouldn't recognise the phrase; 'I'm sure that it's nothing. Just go home, drink lots of water, and get plenty of rest.' It's the lazy doctors way of saying they don't think it's worth their time investigating the problem.

However I became the subject of such intense accusations, of faking disability and ill health after I collapsed at work from heat stroke at work, that I had no choice but to come up with answers to questions which doctors weren't willing to waste time looking for. When you dig deep enough into medical research these days it's surprising the answers which you find.

As for your friends son; the condition isn't necessarily with him for life. Before I collapsed at work I was able to optimise my diet and lifestyle to the point where I was no longer taking warfarin. It was only the new toxic work exposures and cessation of my health regime which led to the return of the problem.

As I haven't yet received investigations for Parkinson's disease I can't advise you on current standards although I have read about a couple of recently developed form of MRI scans which show early evidence of the brain damage. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220715151014.htm https://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-04-tell-tail-mri-image-diagnosis-parkinson.html

 

[ThereseFlower]

I think that most people just accept some level of medical gaslighting in their lives, with doctors simply dismissing patients claims of being ill. If that wasn't the case then most people wouldn't recognise the phrase; 'I'm sure that it's nothing. Just go home, drink lots of water, and get plenty of rest.' It's the lazy doctors way of saying they don't think it's worth their time investigating the problem.

However I became the subject of such intense accusations, of faking disability and ill health after I collapsed at work from heat stroke at work, that I had no choice but to come up with answers to questions which doctors weren't willing to waste time looking for. When you dig deep enough into medical research these days it's surprising the answers which you find.

As for your friends son; the condition isn't necessarily with him for life. Before I collapsed at work I was able to optimise my diet and lifestyle to the point where I was no longer taking warfarin. It was only the new toxic work exposures and cessation of my health regime which led to the return of the problem.

As I haven't yet received investigations for Parkinson's disease I can't advise you on current standards although I have read about a couple of recently developed form of MRI scans which show early evidence of the brain damage. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220715151014.htm https://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-04-tell-tail-mri-image-diagnosis-parkinson.html

Thank you again for your informative reply. I will check out the link too.
Hope things get better for you.

 

[ThereseFlower]

BAZ493,
I just read the link above regarding quantitative MRI. It sounds very promising, and I sure hope it comes to my geographic area sooner rather than later. I should be insured by then. Now, will the insurance agree to cover the test for me, since I will likely be on a free non-premium policy. We shall wait, maybe I will get well before then. 🙂😍