ANOTHER Exercise Study!

[Cort]

Researchers are getting the word!

Exercise research is in!

This was a modeling study out of Germany less. (Didn't expect that!) The model suggests that low ATP levels after exercise cause cell death and impede recovery times. I can get that! Plus increased acidosis and lactate accumulations result - that's what Newton showed...

This is the third third exercise study in a couple of months plus a Canadian researcher just got a nice NIH grant..

This is ALL GOOD! It gives me hope.

A theoretical paper from the Institute for Condensed Matter Physics, Technische Universität Darmstadt, Germany. Authors: Nicor Lengert, Barbara Drossel.

Abstract
Post-exertional malaise is commonly observed in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome, but its mechanism is not yet well understood. A reduced capacity for mitochondrial ATP synthesis is associated with the pathogenesis of CFS and is suspected to be a major contribution to exercise intolerance in CFS patients. To demonstrate the connection between a reduced mitochondrial capacity and exercise intolerance, we present a model which simulates metabolite dynamics in skeletal muscles during exercise and recovery. CFS simulations exhibit critically low levels of ATP, where an increased rate of cell death would be expected. To stabilize the energy supply at low ATP concentrations the total adenine nucleotide pool is reduced substantially causing a prolonged recovery time even without consideration of other factors, such as immunological dysregulations and oxidative stress. Repeated exercises worsen this situation considerably. Furthermore, CFS simulations exhibited an increased acidosis and lactate accumulation consistent with experimental observations.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301462215000630

 

[Strike me lucky]

Theoretically then, supplements like creatine and ribose should help?
I have used these supps, got nothing great from them, still get PEM etc
It could be mitochondrial dysfunction, even with mito supps, if the machinery to make energy is broken, no amount of energy supps will fix the problem??????

We just dont have a very good ability to recover from exercise, not just replace lost atp etc but also repair the other damage done by exercise to the muscles and probably the mitochondria themselves. Some of this can come down to hormones and have the right anabolic/catabolic hormonal ratio as well. Sleep also has alot to do with this recovery process as this is when many anabolic hormones do alot of the growth and repair processes in the body.

I cant help but think viral infected cells are using all our atp and not leaving alot behind, the buggers!

 

[JennyJenny]

Theoretically then, supplements like creatine and ribose should help?
I have used these supps, got nothing great from them, still get PEM etc
It could be mitochondrial dysfunction, even with mito supps, if the machinery to make energy is broken, no amount of energy supps will fix the problem??????

We just dont have a very good ability to recover from exercise, not just replace lost atp etc but also repair the other damage done by exercise to the muscles and probably the mitochondria themselves. Some of this can come down to hormones and have the right anabolic/catabolic hormonal ratio as well. Sleep also has alot to do with this recovery process as this is when many anabolic hormones do alot of the growth and repair processes in the body.

I cant help but think viral infected cells are using all our atp and not leaving alot behind, the buggers!

I used ATP and it did nothing. I am pretty sure I used Creatine too but at this point I cannot remember. I think your theory is a good one where the viral infected cells are using our ATP.

 

[Cort]

I used ATP and it did nothing. I am pretty sure I used Creatine too but at this point I cannot remember. I think your theory is a good one where the viral infected cells are using our ATP.

I think there are lots of stages in ATP production - maybe a different stage is affected...

 

[corni]

Hi, I am the author of this article. We basically show, that a reduced mitochondrial capcity can lead to PEM. And in theory, supplements like ribose, Q10, carnitine etc. should improve the symptoms a bit. But, the low mitochondrial capacity itself is probably caused by immunological dysfunctions like an upregulated RNase L pathway or a dysfunction in the memory cells to EBV, so the underlying cause is not removed by just supplementing. Some interesting articles on the role of EBV (I am myself a CFS patient with a preceding EBV infection):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0085387
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17513758.2012.704083
The dysfunctional B cells response could explain why the medication with Rituximab was helpful to some CFS patients (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026358). I hope we will see more research in that field.