Antihistamines Improve T2Diabetes.

Discussion in 'Diet and Improving Your Gut' started by Remy, Apr 15, 2016.


Have you tried Ketotifen?

  1. Yes, for allergies/mast cell issues.

    2 vote(s)
  2. Yes, for improving leaky gut.

    1 vote(s)
  3. No.

    5 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    Ketotifen is not a well known antihistamine in the US outside of mast cell forums...but it's a great antihistamine because it also works as a mast cell stabilizer. It's available in the US from compounding pharmacies.

    And here is 2015 research showing that histamine plays a role in insulin resistance and obesity. These conditions were improved by the addition of 1 mg/day of ketotifen.

    Some doctors think ketotifen will also improve leaky gut symptoms if taken 30 minutes before eating.

    I am taking ketotifen, though have only been taking 1 mg/day. I'm going to up it to twice a day.

    Has anyone else tried ketotifen?

  2. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd Active Member

    I wasn't familiar with ketotifen, but a google search tells me its the same antihistamine found in Zaditor eye drops, which I have used for eye allergies. I wonder if the eye drops have any of the mast stabilizing effects as well...
    Who Me? likes this.
  3. Veet

    Veet Well-Known Member

    My MC issues are relatively mild. I've had good luck w/ royal jelly.
    ankaa likes this.
  4. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    I also love Royal jelly.

    But wouldn't it be something if your "mild" mast cell issues were actually responsible for your more severe symptoms too (even if seemingly unrelated)?

    I just found out today that mast cells can stimulate prolactin release. I've been chasing down the root cause of that mildly elevated prolactin for years now. Could it be that it was the mast cells all along?
    Who Me? likes this.
  5. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    I have some I have not tried it yet, mostly because I forgot I had it.
    How does one take it? I've seen caps I think.
  6. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    I'm totally wrong about Ketotifin which is Zyrtec. I think I have that for allergies and it's not sedating for me. I was thinking of atarax. @Remy isn't that OTC?

    @Strike me lucky For you!

    Veet and Strike me lucky like this.
  7. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    Love the Guinea!

    Ketotifen is Zaditor. It's rx only in the US and available only through a compounding pharmacy.

    Zyrtec is cetirizine. I like it as an antihistamine a lot but it doesn't have the same mast cell stabilizing properties as ketotifen. Ketotifen is more sedating though, but it does wear off after a week or two.

    Atarax is another good antihistamine but first generation vs Zyrtec which is second generation. The second gen antihistamines don't tend to cause as much sedation. But the first gens tend to work better in some cases still. Atarax makes me super groggy the next day. I've never taken it enough days in a row to see if that effect passes like it did with the ketotifen.
    Who Me? likes this.
  8. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

  9. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    Yah Atarax had me really drugged the next day. I do have another one, I can't remember the name, to try. I think I have zyrtec for allergies but it wasn't sedating.

    I have periactin to try.
  10. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    Yah Atarax had me really drugged the next day. I do have another one, I can't remember the name, to try. I think I have zyrtec for allergies but it wasn't sedating.

    I have periactin to try.
  11. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    I forget how much I took. How much periactin do you take?
  12. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    I can't experiment until I figure out what has me feeling like I got dosed.

    I don't even remember where I put them. Wherever I put the missing Roxi.
    Strike me lucky likes this.
  13. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    About 4 years ago I did a blog on the preliminary results from a Ketiotifen trial and did an overview of mast cell activation in fibromyalgia
    Of course by now I had forgotten all about what MCAS is :bag:

    1990 and 1997 skin studies found high levels of IgG deposits in the skin that appeared to be caused by mast cell activity. Nine years later a 2008 FM study suggesting immune problems in fibromyalgia pointed an arrow at mast cells, but it wasn’t until 2010 that a Spanish FM study looked again at the skin – and found greatly increased levels of mast cells in the skin of every FM patient tested – a high positive rate for any disorder.

    At that point, Ang, a frustrated physician/researcher not happy with a 30% success rate for FM approved drugs got busy. When preliminary results from his small NIH funded Ketiotifen FM study suggested the drug was working; he stated “I am quite excited. I think we are on the right track. The most rewarding thing I think that I can tell you being a physician scientist, is hearing from patients that they are responding to the medication that we are testing.”

    One patient who didn’t know but assumed she was on the medication was pain free for the first time in years; “I was sure I had medicine, not the placebo. I was pain free. It was amazing. I was like I can’t believe this, I think they’re on to something.”

    ....Ang, the leader of the study thought

    “So my hypothesis is that if we quiet these immune cells then it will not send too many signals to the peripheral nerve endings and therefore would lessen the transmission of signals or pain to the brain and spinal chord and hopefully reduce the overall pain”

    But Theoharides did not think ketiotifen was the cat's meow for mast cell activation

    "Thus far preliminary results suggest Ketiotifen may be helping in Fibromyalgia but Theoharides, believes better mast cell ‘stabilizers’ are available. Ketiotifen, he reports, is effective at blocking the release of allergy producing immune factors but does not block pro-inflammatory cytokines, which he believes are key in ME/CFS and other disorders.
    Theoharides 2012 study found that quercetin and luteolin were more effective than cromolyn, a mast cell stabilizer, at reducing cytokine release and he’s produced a patent-protected neutraceutical product called Neuroprotek (available without prescription) he believes will work better. The problem with many neutraceuticals is getting enough of their active factors into the system to make a difference. Theoharides believes using olive kernel oil in his products significantly increases the flavinoids availability."

    In 2014 the results of Ang's study were released and the study basically failed.

    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  14. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    Don't you think maybe this says it all?

    2 mg of ketotifen is probably not nearly enough. Most I've read suggests higher doses are more effective. I'm on 1 mg 3 times a day. I believe I read that Afrin will prescribe up to 8 mg a day if the situation calls for it.

    And it's also possible that fibro and MCAS are just plain not the same thing. :)
    Lissa, Strike me lucky and Who Me? like this.
  15. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    Neuroprotek has a third ingredient, forgot what but he says 2 do the work while the 3rd distracts the stomach so the others can work.

    (Can't remember where I read it but it was while searching luteolin )
  16. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    Wow...I took the quotes out...I got that quote from a blog I did for Phoenix did not sit well on the HR Forums (lol)
    Who Me? likes this.
  17. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    This dosing thing is soooo important. I think most studies are quite conservative - particularly with supplements. I often wonder how in the world do they expect to get effects from taking a normal dose of something. It's so sad though. Ang has surely moved on...
  18. Veet

    Veet Well-Known Member

    I would not be surprised if MC turn out to be very much involved. My symptoms have included bladder urgency, blood blisters in mouth, discharge from ears.

    The other ingredient in Neuroprotek is rutin I started my natural antihistamines w/ quercetin, then found rutin was better for me. I'd quit taking them when I was no longer having overt histamine symptoms. Since learning of the connection of MC to POTS, I've resumed rj and rutin. The reason I started looking into POTS, heat flushing, has dramatically reduced or disappeared since I've put these back into my mix.

    This interview of 2 women by Dr. Theoharides covers some of the broad range of symptoms.

    Here Theoharides talks about mast cell/histamine storms in the brain. When my mind was non-stop, with no success in calming it, I had excellent, almost immediate results w/ Neuroprotek. After intense detox efforts, I no longer needed it. It's pricey, especially w/ postage, so I've reserved it for brain storms, not for general MC issues, and am no longer using it. And here, Theoharides talks specifically about Neuroprotek. I generally avoid specialty formulations, but trusted him and his experience in pharmacology, and am very glad I did.

    Lissa and Who Me? like this.
  19. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    @Veet. I've been looking at neuroprotek since seeing the videos from the doc.

    I may not have typical mast cell but i sure do wonder if something is going on in my brain.

    I noticed there are 2 types of neuroprotek. One is low phenol. Do you know the difference (sorry if I've asked you) and how do you know which to get? Is it one capsule per day?

    Like you I try not to get combos but there is a specific reason he has all 3 things in it.

    Just saw one cap per 44 lbs. yikes.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
    Lissa likes this.
  20. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    Just a wee bit. ;) But it's mostly gone now. It took a couple of weeks though and I tried to time taking the AH around when I would be OK with a nap.
    Strike me lucky likes this.