Beta blockers anyone?

Strike me lucky

Well-Known Member
I have been going through extra stress lately,too much to elaborate. But really peaking out inside although probably look calm unless i held a glass of water lol.

Spoke to my dr today which was good to let off steam. I wasnt keen on ADs as they havent helped much in the past and benzos i dont want to take during the day as i dont want sky high tolerance for when i need them for sleep. So asked about beta blockers which he said was worth trying. So far it seems to be helping and making it easier to relax. No issues with bp and pulse has dropped from high to more normal, so thats all good.

Whats others experiences with these types of meds?

Cheers
 

Seanko

Well-Known Member
Beta blockers will help if you have the physical symptoms associated with stress eg racing heart & breathing, sweaty palms etc .On the mental side they will not stop your mind from racing as a result of being physically incapacitated.

No, i am not going to recommend CBT for stress :) However one thing which works for me is meditation & mindfulness. An app you can use for Android, iphone & PC is Headspace. You get 10 free sessions plus I have a couple of 30 day trials. (I have no financial links to declare)
 

Remy

Administrator
I have been going through extra stress lately,too much to elaborate. But really peaking out inside although probably look calm unless i held a glass of water lol.

Spoke to my dr today which was good to let off steam. I wasnt keen on ADs as they havent helped much in the past and benzos i dont want to take during the day as i dont want sky high tolerance for when i need them for sleep. So asked about beta blockers which he said was worth trying. So far it seems to be helping and making it easier to relax. No issues with bp and pulse has dropped from high to more normal, so thats all good.

Whats others experiences with these types of meds?

Cheers
Funny you should bring this up because beta-blockers have been on my mind a LOT lately.

They are good for certain kinds of dysautonomia, for sure. My heart rate jumps way up above where it should be 110+ just getting up and walking around. It comes down pretty quickly again (thank goodness) but I know I would have more endurance walking and hiking if my stupid HR wasn't over 100 when it should be in the 80s. So beta blockers seem like a good idea, right?

And then I watched this really interesting program on PBS (was planning to post on this later in another thread) about how they are using propranolol, a common beta blocker, to extinguish fear responses in people. The results were just amazing - imagine all the people cuddling on tarantulas.

It's also commonly prescribed for migraines.

So I was all set to go until I googled "side effects" and found a significant number of people talking about massive weight gain, to the tune of 40+ pounds or more within a month or two of taking it. Obviously this does not happen for everyone. But considering my struggles losing weight, I'm afraid it would happen to me. Afraid enough to put off the trial I was planning for the time being at least.

It's worth mentioning that acetylcholine is considered nature's beta blocker...and there are theories abound that deficient acetylcholine may be responsible for some symptoms...see Diana Driscoll and Dr VanElzakker.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
I take propranol but only at night since I need it more for heart palps and lowers my Bp too much

They used to give inderal for migraines.

I had not heard of the weight gain but might be worth a shot. You'd know pretty quick.

What about calcium channel blockers? Where do they for into this?
 

Strike me lucky

Well-Known Member
Beta blockers will help if you have the physical symptoms associated with stress eg racing heart & breathing, sweaty palms etc .On the mental side they will not stop your mind from racing as a result of being physically incapacitated.

No, i am not going to recommend CBT for stress :) However one thing which works for me is meditation & mindfulness. An app you can use for Android, iphone & PC is Headspace. You get 10 free sessions plus I have a couple of 30 day trials. (I have no financial links to declare)

I researched beta blocker experiences first and saw similar experiences to you in that mental aspects arent effected. But last night i noticed a very calming cns effects. Later on i had to take some pain killers for headaches and noticed i was much more sedated than normal from it.

I wonder if even prior to this recent stress if i have neurogenic type of dysautonomia? I'm wondering if the head shingles is worsening all this especially last year when bp spiked high and on bp meds for this.
 

Strike me lucky

Well-Known Member
Funny you should bring this up because beta-blockers have been on my mind a LOT lately.

They are good for certain kinds of dysautonomia, for sure. My heart rate jumps way up above where it should be 110+ just getting up and walking around. It comes down pretty quickly again (thank goodness) but I know I would have more endurance walking and hiking if my stupid HR wasn't over 100 when it should be in the 80s. So beta blockers seem like a good idea, right?

And then I watched this really interesting program on PBS (was planning to post on this later in another thread) about how they are using propranolol, a common beta blocker, to extinguish fear responses in people. The results were just amazing - imagine all the people cuddling on tarantulas.

It's also commonly prescribed for migraines.

So I was all set to go until I googled "side effects" and found a significant number of people talking about massive weight gain, to the tune of 40+ pounds or more within a month or two of taking it. Obviously this does not happen for everyone. But considering my struggles losing weight, I'm afraid it would happen to me. Afraid enough to put off the trial I was planning for the time being at least.

It's worth mentioning that acetylcholine is considered nature's beta blocker...and there are theories abound that deficient acetylcholine may be responsible for some symptoms...see Diana Driscoll and Dr VanElzakker.

Intermittent use is a way around these side effects. Gaining weight i think for many of us is due to inactivity more than anything else. If a beta blocker makes you more active than may help counteract any possible weight gain. Just a thought.
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
What about calcium channel blockers? Where do they for into this?
My doctor prescribed a calcium channel blocker (for tachy) instead of a beta blocker because at the time I had a rescue inhaler (Long story). I take it routinely which allows me to do quite a bit more. Nice not to be tachycardic just from standing up.

Weight gain is supposed to be a side effect of calcium channel blockers also, but it hasn't been a problem for me. In fact I've lost a LOT of weight since I've been on them (not suggesting the CCB is causal) and it hasn't been a huge effort.
 

Remy

Administrator
So it looks like "conventional" beta blockers increase insulin resistance but for some reason they also decide that that isn't what is responsible for weight gain. Hmmm.

https://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/7/431

In clinical studies that used the euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique (the most reliable available method of estimating insulin sensitivity), treatment with conventional β-blockers (either non-selective, e.g. propranolol,14 or β1-selective, e.g. atenolol,15,,16 metoprolol,11,,16) significantly decreased insulin sensitivity in hypertensive patients. This deterioration of insulin sensitivity with β-blockers is expected to have a direct negative effect on glycaemic control in patients with both hypertension and type 2 DM. On the other hand, in patients without type 2 DM, the concept of the metabolic syndrome suggests that a decrease in insulin sensitivity would not result in elevation of blood glucose levels, as long as the pancreatic β-cells could secrete the necessary amounts of insulin. However, after a certain period of time, β-cells would no longer be able to compensate for the increasing insulin resistance and type 2 DM would appear.17
So they determine that newer, vasodilating beta blockers can actually improve insulin sensitivity. Anyone tried carvedilol?

Carvedilol, a non-selective β-blocker with α1-blocking properties has been also found to improve insulin sensitivity. Jacob et al. compared the effects of carvedilol and metoprolol in 72 hypertensive patients without DM, and observed a 14% increase in insulin sensitivity estimated with the clamp with carvedilol after 12 weeks of treatment, whereas metoprolol was associated with a reduction in this parameter.11 In another study, Giuglano et al. compared the effects of carvedilol and atenolol in 45 patients with both hypertension and type 2 DM. After 24 weeks of treatment, fasting plasma glucose and HbA1c were decreased and insulin sensitivity measured with the clamp was increased with carvedilol, whereas atenolol had the opposite results.12
When you read about carvedilol, they actually list weight loss as a side effect...but there are plenty of people talking about massive weight gain with it as well.

My insulin is nearly three times higher than it should be which is likely why I am struggling to lose weight even though I have barely seen a carbohydrate since Christmas. My current plan is to get that under control, if at all possible, before messing with the beta blockers. It just seems like one more unknown variable.

But I'm glad it is helping you, @Strike me lucky!
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
The problem with non selective beta blockers, which is my problem if I take too much, is they can cause bronchial constriction.

I felt like I wasn't getting enough O2 to my brain.
 

Seanko

Well-Known Member
I researched beta blocker experiences first and saw similar experiences to you in that mental aspects arent effected. But last night i noticed a very calming cns effects. Later on i had to take some pain killers for headaches and noticed i was much more sedated than normal from it.

I wonder if even prior to this recent stress if i have neurogenic type of dysautonomia? I'm wondering if the head shingles is worsening all this especially last year when bp spiked high and on bp meds for this.
You've got a few stressors going on with the shingles on top of the ME/CFS plus I think you mentioned taking time off work. It's a vicious cycle with each problem compounding the others.

However if you can get one issue addressed then your body & mind start to calm down. If you can get slow your thought processes (music, relaxation techniques, mindfulness etc) then your brain will not respond so enthusiastically to the stimuli your nervous system is sending down the chain.
 
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Strike me lucky

Well-Known Member
You've got a few stressors going on with the shingles on top of the ME/CFS plus I think you mentioned taking time off work. It's a vicious cycle with each problem compounding the others.

However if you can get one issue addressed then your body & mind start to calm down. If you can get your mind to calm down (music, relaxation techniques, mindfulness etc) then your brain will not respond so enthusiastically to the stimuli your nervous system is sendign down the chain.

Spot on. I have a plan in my mind but im expecting a fight with income insurance. Once thats sorted than theres one stress down and i can work on getting healthy.

Thanks for support @Seanko

Cheers
 

Renee

New Member
Beta blockers can cause alteration of your gut micro biome which in cfs is something to think about.
 

Remy

Administrator
Beta blockers can cause alteration of your gut micro biome which in cfs is something to think about.
I've not heard much about beta blockers influencing the gut biome...a quick googling isn't revealing much either.

Would you mind to post some links?
 

Seven

Well-Known Member
If you see the last video from Dr Grubbs, You can kill 2 birds with one pill because some Betaclocker will act on the neuro symptoms as well. SO it will help calm the CNS and help brain fog and concentration issues (I use propanalol which is the one he mentioned in the talk).

I have not noticed any worsening of gut, but I do take l-glutamine daily and do stuff to heal gut. But I am definitely better from Gut. I think a lot of the GI issues are autonomic so might help too not sure.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
@Seven i take propranolol too but because it's non-selective I sometime get bronchial constriction issues. I have to keep my dose down. Selective BB's don't work for what I need.
 

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