Brain Fog is likely mast cell and glial inflammation.

Remy

Administrator
This is a great post on how brain fog is most likely caused by a combination of mast cell and glial activation...and may be fixed by a combination of a galantamine to activate the cholinergic pathway and ibudilast (currently one of the drugs Dr Younger is studying).


Step 1: activate the “cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway” (inhibit peripheral/systemic/body inflammation) with galantamine. (R)
Step 2: reduce microglial activation (inhibit central/brain inflammation) with ibudilast. (R

Brain fog is a non-scientific term describing a set of symptoms including forgetfulness, impaired thinking, difficulty focusing, cloudiness, mental fatigue, spaciness, etc. R

Is brain fog purely subjective?

No. Some patients reporting the symptoms of brain fog have measurable cognitive deficits in working memory, speed/efficiency of processing, reaction time, attention, and concentration. R

Although there are MANY possible causes (which I will discuss in detail in future posts), the number one culprit is most likely 1) excessive mast cell/glial cell activation which 2) increases inflammation which 3) causes excessive histamine release in the hypothalamus which 4) activates histamine H3 autoinhibitory receptors which 5) causes brain fog. R
[bimg=no-lightbox]http://i1.wp.com/www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/147642/fnins-09-00225-r2/image_m/fnins-09-00225-g001.jpg?resize=680%2C459[/bimg]
 

Remy

Administrator
I have been taking this combination myself for a couple of weeks now.

It's obviously early days, but I'm noticing a big difference. Fingers crossed.

I didn't even really think I had brain fog, to be honest, so this combination may actually help with numerous symptoms caused by over activation of these two systems.

I'm very encouraged.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
Since I started OTC stuff for mast cell my brain functioning is worse, so I totally agree with this.
 

Lissa

Well-Known Member
Yeah.... Curious for opinions here: I started taking Neuroprotek a few days ago and seemed to have a weird reaction. (I'm already doing H1/H2 blockers for suspected MCAS)

I took 1 with lunch and later I felt as if I'd taken a muscle relaxant. I fell asleep HARD and slept for 4 or 5 hours. I rarely need to take naps and if I do, I usually struggle to get 15 minutes of sleep. Afternoon is usually an active time for me.

So I switched to taking 1 at dinner. Been SUPER brain foggy the last few days. Oddly so. Then horribly sluggish in the morning. I didn't take one last night- and sure enough I feel more normal this morning.

My question is.... Is this stuff working or NOT working?! I'm inclined to quit taking it because it's making me even more dysfunctional. But if it's a sign it's working --- Do I need to press on? Very confusing....

I'm wondering if I need to try one of the ingredients at a time. Any thoughts from the MCAS experts/experimenters out there? Thanks!
 

Remy

Administrator
Yeah.... Curious for opinions here: I started taking Neuroprotek a few days ago and seemed to have a weird reaction. (I'm already doing H1/H2 blockers for suspected MCAS)

I took 1 with lunch and later I felt as if I'd taken a muscle relaxant. I fell asleep HARD and slept for 4 or 5 hours. I rarely need to take naps and if I do, I usually struggle to get 15 minutes of sleep. Afternoon is usually an active time for me.

So I switched to taking 1 at dinner. Been SUPER brain foggy the last few days. Oddly so. Then horribly sluggish in the morning. I didn't take one last night- and sure enough I feel more normal this morning.

My question is.... Is this stuff working or NOT working?! I'm inclined to quit taking it because it's making me even more dysfunctional. But if it's a sign it's working --- Do I need to press on? Very confusing....

I'm wondering if I need to try one of the ingredients at a time. Any thoughts from the MCAS experts/experimenters out there? Thanks!
For me, an extreme need to sleep signals an allergic type reaction. It's usually to food or chemicals but could easily be a supplement too.

I think I would probably stop it for a couple of days and see if it stays away and then trial the ingredients separately. It could even be a filler. :(
 

Lissa

Well-Known Member
For me, an extreme need to sleep signals an allergic type reaction. It's usually to food or chemicals but could easily be a supplement too.

I think I would probably stop it for a couple of days and see if it stays away and then trial the ingredients separately. It could even be a filler. :(
That's a great point! I react like that with soy actually.... I've just avoided it so long that I forgot it happens. I think I'll not even do a retrial. Doesn't seem worth it. Thanks so much @Remy ! :)
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
Before I got it I did exactly what remy said, tried each Ingredient alone. I did not have problems like you did

I may have missed the entire soy comment but doesn't he use olive oil as a base to this?
 

Lissa

Well-Known Member
Before I got it I did exactly what remy said, tried each Ingredient alone. I did not have problems like you did

I may have missed the entire soy comment but doesn't he use olive oil as a base to this?
Sorry... Didn't mean to imply Neuroprotek has soy in it. The label states it does not.

I was just using algebraic style reasoning... If soy = toxic sleepiness; and Neuroprotek = toxic sleepiness; (and for me, toxic sleepiness = allergy/intolerance....) then I must have an allergy/intolerance to some ingredient in Neuroprotek.

It's just that I hadn't had such a strong reaction in sooooo long that I'd forgotten the consequences/meaning. Total brain fog moment. Makes total sense after @Remy kicked my rusty memory bank into gear.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
I actually think I understood what you said. Neuroprotek = allergic reaction.

I'm using Rutin and Quercetin. I noticed nothing from the luteolin so I stopped that. What has really helped is a digestive enzyme. When I eat something and have a reaction I take some mangosteen.

What is still annoying is one day I can eat something, the next I can't.

And I'm pretty sure my extra dose of fog and confusion started about the time I started dealing with this so I'm on to something.
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
Surprisingly, if you have issues with phenols, Then rutin and quercetin could be an issue. That's why they have a version of Neuroprotec with lower of those two things. I had a bad reaction to rutin recently. And never really thought quercetin did much for me. Want to try luteolin by itself.

Issie
 

Remy

Administrator
Looks like a combination of galantamine and an NMDA antagonist like memantine may be even more effective when combined with ibudilast.

This study is on cognition in schizophrenic patients, but I think there is relevance for MECFS too.
 

Remy

Administrator
And add in some nicotine lozenges for a 1-2-3-4 brain fog punch!

I actually think this is a pretty big deal finding.

Galantamine and nicotine have a synergistic effect on inhibition of microglial activation induced by HIV-1 gp120.
Giunta B, et al. Brain Res Bull. 2004.
Show full citation
Abstract

Chronic brain inflammation is the common final pathway in the majority of neurodegenerative diseases and central to this phenomenon is the immunological activation of brain mononuclear phagocyte cells, called microglia.

This inflammatory mechanism is a central component of HIV-associated dementia (HAD). In the healthy state, there are endogenous signals from neurons and astrocytes, which limit excessive central nervous system (CNS) inflammation. However, the signals controlling this process have not been fully elucidated.

Studies on the peripheral nervous system suggest that a cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway regulates systemic inflammatory response by way of acetylcholine acting at the alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (alpha7nAChR) found on blood-borne macrophages.

Recent data from our laboratory indicates that cultured microglial cells also express this same receptor and that microglial anti-inflammatory properties are mediated through it and the p44/42 mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) system.

Here we report for the first time the creation of an in vitro model of HAD composed of cultured microglial cells synergistically activated by the addition of IFN-gamma and the HIV-1 coat glycoprotein, gp120. Furthermore, this activation, as measured by TNF-alpha and nitric oxide (NO) release, is synergistically attenuated through the alpha7 nAChR and p44/42 MAPK system by pretreatment with nicotine, and the cholinesterase inhibitor, galantamine.

Our findings suggest a novel therapeutic combination to treat or prevent the onset of HAD through this modulation of the microglia inflammatory mechanism.
 

rebar

Active Member
Remy,
There are now several things mentioned and I'm modestly confused.
I mentioned previously that cognitive stuff is one of my most troubling problems, and would love a little more info.
Also are you going to try Oxaloacetate?

So what are you doing presently, and are you still feeling benefit. Also dosage.

thanks, you post some interesting sites and topics.
 

Remy

Administrator
Remy,
There are now several things mentioned and I'm modestly confused.
I mentioned previously that cognitive stuff is one of my most troubling problems, and would love a little more info.
Also are you going to try Oxaloacetate?

So what are you doing presently, and are you still feeling benefit. Also dosage.

thanks, you post some interesting sites and topics.
Yes, it's my worst failing...if one supplement is good, twelve must be fantastic!! But unfortunately, I think sometimes less is better.

Right now, I'm doing the ibudilast 10 mg and galantamine 4 mg twice a day...morning and mid afternoon.

I am sporadically adding in things like oxaloacetate (100 mg) and nicotine lozenges (2 mg) as needed for energy when I want to walk the dogs or do the treadmill.

I plan to do a test of higher dose oxaloacetate to see what that does but I am going to order the higher dosage CronAxal product instead of the 100 mg BenaGene, I think, to save on the number of capsules I'd have to take.

I'm also taking 5 mg of memantine at night for sleep. This intervention is too new to know if it is truly helping or not. But I can say so far it is not hurting or giving me a morning hangover.

I agree with @Who Me? , that a source of choline and B vits is a good idea on this sort of protocol. I like and eat eggs several times a week but you could also use something like AlphaGPC. I also take the Jarrow B Right twice a day.

So far so good, but I'll continue to experiment with doses etc and report back.
 

Remy

Administrator
@rebar I was just looking around and @Remy posted that link in this thread.

http://www.healthrising.org/forums/threads/ibudilast-trial.4469/

@Remy, how are you doing on this?
Really well. It's one of my favorite supplements so far. I'm still messing around with the dose. I was close to running out and it was back ordered so I had to drop down for a while.

The only issue is maybe a little stomach upset but I don't even notice that happening much anymore.

The ibudilast/galantamine/antihistamine combo has been quite successful for me so far. I'm not cured but I'm much better than I was.
 

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