CARNIVORE (no plants) diet (yeah it's supposed to be shocking ^^)

Folk

Well-Known Member
By CARNIVORE I mean only meat (and meaty products) and water. That's all

So it's seems its catching slowly. But deffinetelly becoming a trend. There are some studies I'll link later. And a lot of anedoctal evidence that we not just don't need vegetables but they are bad for us. All the toxins from theirs defense mechanisms and other stuff we don't digest may do more harm than good.

There are a lot of question that will pop into your head automatically "Vitamin C?" "Fiber?" "All vitamins and nutrients from plants."

Well there are answers for all of those, that seems perfect reasonable and I'll try to adress them and any other questions you guys may ask. And frankly I've never seen fiber fix any constipation in my life (includinng mine), NEVER.

For now any knowledge/experience are welcome.

Just please let's not turn this into a ethical discussion about veganism vs carnivorism. Thanks! :)
 

TJ_Fitz

Well-Known Member
I'm not on board with an all-meat diet, but I agree that there are some parts of plants that are troublesome. The lectins in grains and legumes are damaging to the gut, so example, but fruits are intended to be eaten, so I have no qualms with them. I eat a lot of fruits and raw leafy greens for the nutrients they provide.

The Eskimos traditionally lived on a diet very high in meat/fish and very low in any kind of plants, so it works for at least some people. From my years following Eat Right For Your Type or the GenoType Diet by Dr. Peter D'Adamo, and learning about the research behind those programs, I know that the genes that determine your blood type also affect other factors that determine what foods you're best able to assimilate. For example, people with blood type O have the highest levels of stomach acid, and tend to have more reactive immune systems, and so diets high in animal fat and protein are well-suited to them. On the other hand, blood type A predisposes you to lower levels of stomach acid, and therefore reduced capacity to digest meals heavy in animal protein, but are able to tolerate more lectins; for example, the type A antigen is believed to actually bind the primary wheat lectin, WGA, and render it harmless, but that's only an effect if you are an ABO secretor (meaning, you secrete your blood type antigens into body fluids other than blood). ABO secretors are also more resistant to candida overgrowth, probably because the good bacteria living in the gut use the ABO antigens as a food source, and are able to thrive and not leave much ecological space for the candida to overgrow. ABO non-secretors get norovirus resistance: http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1005385 but that's the only benefit I know of. I'm a non-secretor, blood type B+ myself, so my ideal diet looks more heavy on meat and fish, but still includes plenty of fruits and non-starchy veggies.

And frankly I've never seen fiber fix any constipation in my life (including mine), NEVER.
Yep, neither have I, at least not for more than a couple of days. Eliminating starchy foods does me a lot more good.
 

TJ_Fitz

Well-Known Member
It seems I need to make a retraction. I've been using ground flax seed for over a month, and it's actually helping with constipation. I think the type of fiber is very important. Most fiber supplements use psyllium, which is mostly soluble fiber. Flax has a much higher proportion of insoluble to soluble fiber, and I think that's why it's working for me. Soluble fiber can actually SLOW DOWN your gut. Insoluble fiber is sort of like a push broom, sweeping out the rubbish that's collected in your gut.
 

ponypanic

Active Member
I would recommend watching the Netflix programme ‘ the game changer’ to challenge this idea we need a meat based diet at all, wish I could concentrate long enough to thoroughly research these things myself! But anyway the worlds strongest man and top athletes are vegan, so I’m going to go in that direction. I also really have a problem with the meat industry and animal welfare anyways.
 

Ughhh

Active Member
I actually find the one improvement I have on carnivore is my gut issue. My gut issue is that I don't poop. I don't know where the food goes, but it's not coming out as poop. The doctors tell me to eat lots more fiber, and all I was eating was fiber, fruits and veggies. The thing that finally convinced me to try carnivore was a youtube video where the carnivore promoter talked about your poop on carnivore, which is basically a lack of poop. He said that if you ate carnivore and they stuck a bag in your side to examine what is coming out that it would just be liquids nothing major bc there is no fiber. That sounded much better to me then eating tons of stuff that mysteriously never poops out or occasionally shows up as a giant uncontrollable poop that basically had been residing in my gut for weeks building up. And sure enough on carnivore I rarely had to go, but it now made sense and I no longer had any giant uncontrollable poop episodes. My gut just felt calmer and settled.
 

Carl#1

Active Member
I tried low carb once. It made me so constipated that it was extremely difficulty to pass a bowel motion. I mean a really bad strain. No thank you, never again. The body needs fibre to bind to waste products and allow their removal. Without fibre things do not work well and your body will re-absorb waste products which should not be in the body.

It sounds like you have IBS. I rarely get that but whey protein did give me severe IBS. Other new foods can have some effect. After my body/immune system becomes familiar with a food the IBS stops. I did not persist with whey protein so never found out.
 

Learner

Active Member
One thing not mentioned above is an insidious plant based toxin called oxalates. Most vegetables, including all plant proteins have them and they are s problem if either you have genes for not processing oxalates or you e been on antibiotics which kill off oxalate degrading bacteria.

Besides causing kidney stones, which they are known for, they also cause severe oxidative stress, binding minerals, forming sharp crystals which get deposited I almost any tissue in the body - eyes, muscles, joints, thyroid, lungs, brain, etc, causing osteoporosis, etc. Some people are on a carnivore diet on hopes of reducing them, but a well planned low oxalate diet, with fiber and plant nutrients along with eating a form of citrate before each meal, normalizing depleted minerals and replenishing V6 work well .

As for severe constipation, magnesium citrate or oxide and vitamin C can both reduce it. Many people are deficient in them, due to oxalates, dealing with other toxins or oxidative stress
 

Ughhh

Active Member
One thing not mentioned above is an insidious plant based toxin called oxalates. Most vegetables, including all plant proteins have them and they are s problem if either you have genes for not processing oxalates or you e been on antibiotics which kill off oxalate degrading bacteria.
Thank you for bringing this into the conversation. I'm familiar with the low oxalate diet bc I saw a Dr. for vulvodynia that was one of the Drs who believed a low oxalate diet could cure some with this problem. I had a book he wrote and a low oxalate cookbook, but I was vegetarian at the time and couldn't wrap my head around switching to a meat heavy diet. I can't remember the Drs name now he was in Colorado.
 

Learner

Active Member
Thank you for bringing this into the conversation. I'm familiar with the low oxalate diet bc I saw a Dr. for vulvodynia that was one of the Drs who believed a low oxalate diet could cure some with this problem. I had a book he wrote and a low oxalate cookbook, but I was vegetarian at the time and couldn't wrap my head around switching to a meat heavy diet. I can't remember the Drs name now he was in Colorado.
It isn't necessary to go carnivore to deal with oxalates, just choose plant foods that are low oxalate. However, all plant based protein are medium to high oxalate, while animal proteins do not contain them, so protein must come from animal sources. Fats have no oxalates, too.
 

Ughhh

Active Member
It isn't necessary to go carnivore to deal with oxalates, just choose plant foods that are low oxalate. However, all plant based protein are medium to high oxalate, while animal proteins do not contain them, so protein must come from animal sources. Fats have no oxalates, too.
I know it doesn't require a carnivore diet to do low oxalate, but you can't do low oxalate and be vegetarian was my point. It also takes a lot of counting and measuring to do low oxalate and even low meats, and that is really difficult bc some people, like myself, aren't into counting, measuring, weighing and hyper micro managing their food. I also didn't eat eggs or seafood at the time. It's not possible to do low oxalate and be vegetarian. 50mgs of oxalate per day is not going to allow someone to fill up on veggies.
 

Learner

Active Member
I know it doesn't require a carnivore diet to do low oxalate, but you can't do low oxalate and be vegetarian was my point
Yes, it would be pretty impossible to get adequate nutrition being vegetarian and low oxalate.The vegetarian proteins would put you above your daily oxalate limit fast.

It also takes a lot of counting and measuring to do low oxalate and even low meats, and that is really difficult bc some people, like myself, aren't into counting, measuring, weighing and hyper micro managing their food. I also didn't eat eggs or seafood at the time. It's not possible to do low oxalate and be vegetarian. 50mgs of oxalate per day is not going to allow someone to fill up on veggies.
I grumbled and have not exactly liked it, but I've been low oxalate without counting and measuring. I memorized the low oxalate veggies, the low oxalate fruits, and then the medium veggies and fruits, and eat mostly the low ones, with an occasional medium one or two, with occasionally white rice, oats, and animal and fish products and fats. No hyper micromanaging needed.

It is a bit frustrating because all the stuff I'm told to eat for anti cancer, anti hemochromatosis and general health is the opposite of this diet. But I try to get as much nutrition as I can.
 

Ughhh

Active Member
I grumbled and have not exactly liked it, but I've been low oxalate without counting and measuring. I memorized the low oxalate veggies, the low oxalate fruits, and then the medium veggies and fruits, and eat mostly the low ones, with an occasional medium one or two, with occasionally white rice, oats, and animal and fish products and fats. No hyper micromanaging needed.
How long have you been doing low oxalate and is it helping?
 

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