CKD diagnosis

[tabbycat]

Anyone got chrinic kidney disease? I recently got dx’d with Stage 3A, though it will require several tests to confirm. Since the dx I have developed symptoms, nothing life-altering but it’s usually symptomless st this stage. I’m 61, nondiabetic, no high BP, but high bad cholesterol. Many sites cite a Lyme or leaky gut connection.

I find activated charcoal makes me feel better

Wondering if others on here have CKD, your experience, do you think it stems from CFS, leaky gut, Lyme if you have/had if etc. and what treatments (such as supplements) or tests can help?

 

[Carl#1]

Inflammation is a major factor in CKD because the kidneys are very prone to inflammation and things like sepsis can promote CKD and kidney failure. All the things that you mention have high inflammation as part of their diseases and therefore CKD and kidney failure can be linked. That term that I dislike, leaky gut or my preferred term Increased Digestive Permeability promotes high levels of inflammation both by food molecule entry into the circulatory system and LPS influx both of which promote inflammation.

Increasing levels of Glutathione by stimulating synthesis by supplementing NAC, Glycine and Glutamine can be helpful along with the nutrients to reduce homocysteine levels.

Forget the leaky gut treatments because they cannot work because they do not address the true causes which are not understood by conventional medicine. The cause is a pathogenic infection in the digestive system which I have identified which also causes CFS/Fibro.

Look at Nettle Seed tincture which might help a little and increasing Glutathione production.

[EDIT] That is specifically the seed and not any other part of the nettle plant.

 

[tabbycat]

Thanks. I didn’t know about the glutathione connection. Useful info.

 

[Carl#1]

I must point out seeing as what I wrote could be misinterpreted, that I don't think that Nettle Seed increase Glutathione in the kidneys, it could do but it is probably more likely other antioxidants in the kidney. It is also meant to promote healing.

Tu Si Zi (Dodder seed) is also very good for the kidney function but it does have beta blocking effects and can lower blood pressure. It is renowned for protecting the kidneys and is used in many Chinese kidney formulas. You say that you don't have high blood pressure. ME sufferers should have low blood pressure and therefore "normal" blood pressure is not really normal if the lowered blood pressure is taken into account. When things are corrected the blood pressure will probably rise quite dramatically.

I have just come across something in my Health folder a graphic of a label of a product by Natrition called Kidney Care Capsules. I cannot find it on their website now but it is on Amazon but OOS.
https://www.amazon.com/Natrition-Kidney-Cistanche-Tubulosa-240mg/dp/B07KLWLRT5
TCM Dan Shen is very good for the circulatory system and is present in one study that I have some details:

TSF consists of seven natural herbs:
astragalus root (Astragalus membranaceus (Fisch.) Bge.)
rehmannia root (Rehmannia glutinosa (Gaertn.) Libosch.)
notoginseng root (Panax notoginseng (Burk.) F. H. Chen)
winged burning bush twig (Euonymus alatus (Thunb.) Sieb.)
Asiatic cornelian cherry fruit (Cornus officinalis Sieb. Et Zucc.)
rhubarb root and rhizome (Rheum palmatum L.)
bitter orange (Citrus aurantium L.).

Eligible participants will be randomized to either the TSF or placebo group, receiving oral administration of either TSF or placebo (12 g per packet) twice daily for 24 weeks.

Both TSF (Lot No. 1206388) and the placebo were manufactured by the Jiangyin Tianjiang Pharmaceutical Company (Jiangyin, China).

Jian-Pi-Yi-Shen Formula (JPYSF), a Chinese herbal decoction, is composed of eight herbs, that is Astragali Radix, Atractylodis Macrocephalae Rhizoma, Dioscoreae Rhizoma, Cistanches Herba, Amomi Fructus Rotundus, Salviae Miltiorrhizae Radix et Rhizoma, Rhei Radix et Rhizoma, and Glycyrrhizae Radix et Rhizoma Praeparata cum Melle.

Both of those use Astragalus and Rhubarb root. Licorice root is probably best avoided.
Some pdf's which might be of interest, you will need to search for the titles:

Name                                                                                                                                                                                 Size         
A Review of Traditional Chinese Medicine in Treating Renal Interstitial Fibrosis via Endoplasmic Reticulum Stress-Mediated Apoptosis.pdf                                                    628,242
Ameliorating effect of gum arabic & lemongrass on chronic kidney disease induced experimentally in rats.pdf                                                                               1,656,299
Carnosine as a Protective Factor in Diabetic Nephropathy.pdf                                                                                                                                714,946
Chronic Kidney Disease - Integrative Medicine - Litbarg 2018.pdf                                                                                                                          1,731,618
Cordyceps sinensis (a traditional Chinese medicine) for treating chronic kidney disease (Review).pdf                                                                                        495,360
Does Calcium Disodium EDTA Slow CKD Progression - Question.pdf                                                                                                                              199,237
Effects of Aloe Vera extracted on liver & kidney function changes induced by hydrogen peroxide in rats.pdf                                                                                  313,626
Magnesium in chronic kidney disease Stages 3 and 4 and in dialysis patients.pdf                                                                                                             503,768
Highly relevant especially with ME>
Patients with Chronic Renal Failure Have Abnormal Small Intestinal Motility & a High Prevalence of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth.pdf                                                221,537
Protective Effect of Ethanol Extract of Cuscuta chinensis on Lipopolysaccharide-induced Acute Kidney Injury via Suppressing the Toll-like Receptors 4-nuclear factor-?B Pathway.pdf       1,771,460
Psoralea corylifolia L. Seed Extract Attenuates Diabetic Nephropathy by Inhibiting Renal Fibrosis & Apoptosis in Streptozotocin-Induced Diabetic Mice.pdf                                 1,915,249
Recovery from Glycerol-Induced Acute Kidney Injury Is Accelerated by Suramin.pdf                                                                                                          7,018,827
The carbonyl scavenger carnosine ameliorates dyslipidaemia and renal function in Zucker obese rats.pdf                                                                                      932,703
The Role of Gum Arabic for a Protective Kidney Dysfunction Induced Gentamicin on Diabetes Rats.pdf

Dealing with LPS which is very inflammation provoking would be a good idea.

 

[tabbycat]

Thank you. Yes, my blood pressure is on the low side.
I may try this but I tend to get unpleasant side effects from most supplements. They do help, but usually after a few days or weeks I need to stop (already happening with the charcoal and not sure yet about B3, niacinomide). Many food sensitivities and a few plant allergies. May try liposomal glutathione as well as cranberry pills. This is good info though!

 

[Carl#1]

If you use Glutathione then the only one worth using is S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione. That is meant to be used by the body very easily whereas liposomes and Reduced Glutathione do not because they require energy to use them.

It might be worth you searching for a comparison about the effectiveness of the different available types.
Here is what AI had to say about Glutathione supplements for people with ME/Fibro. It backs up what I read about Glutathione supplements for people with ME, that only the S-Acetyl type is used by the human body without requiring precious energy usage. It uses passive diffusion rather than active transport, it may require less cellular energy to enter the cells and therefore it doesn't require energy to transport or use it unlike the other types. BTW I am T1 Diabetic and I need to pay attention to my kidney function. I purchased 50 grams of S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione and in the past I have purchased Reduced L-Glutathione which was a bit of a waste of time.

Glutathione is a critical antioxidant composed of three amino acids—cysteine, glutamic acid, and glycine—that helps protect cells from oxidative stress, supports detoxification, and enhances immune function. For individuals with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME/CFS), a condition often associated with chronic fatigue, oxidative stress, and immune dysfunction, maintaining optimal glutathione levels can be particularly beneficial. However, the body’s ability to utilize glutathione supplements varies depending on their form, bioavailability, and cellular uptake, especially in the context of ME/CFS where energy metabolism is often impaired. Below, I’ll discuss the three main types of glutathione supplements—Reduced Glutathione, S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione, and Liposomal Glutathione—focusing on their characteristics, bioavailability, and suitability for individuals with ME/CFS, including considerations of energy demands.

### 1. Reduced Glutathione (GSH)
- **Description**: Reduced glutathione is the naturally occurring, active form of glutathione in the body, also known as GSH. It is a tripeptide directly involved in neutralizing free radicals, detoxifying toxins, and supporting immune function. It’s available in oral supplements (capsules, tablets, or powders), but its bioavailability is a significant concern.
- **Bioavailability and Cellular Uptake**:
- **General**: Oral reduced glutathione has low bioavailability because it is unstable in the digestive tract, where stomach acid and enzymes can break it down before absorption. Some studies suggest that only a small fraction reaches the bloodstream intact, and even less may enter cells effectively.[](https://infinitelabs.com/blogs/supplements/understanding-different-types-of-glutathione)[](https://thisvsthat.io/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione)
- **ME/CFS Context**: For individuals with ME/CFS, who often experience oxidative stress and glutathione depletion, reduced glutathione’s poor absorption can limit its effectiveness. The process of absorbing and utilizing reduced glutathione may require active transport mechanisms, which could place a minor energy demand on cells. While this energy cost is not well-quantified, it could be a consideration for ME/CFS patients with severe energy deficits. Additionally, the body’s ability to recycle reduced glutathione (via glutathione reductase) may be impaired in ME/CFS due to oxidative stress or nutrient deficiencies (e.g., selenium, vitamin C), further reducing its efficacy.[](https://infinitelabs.com/blogs/supplements/understanding-different-types-of-glutathione)
- **Pros**:
- Widely available and often less expensive than other forms.
- Naturally occurring form, directly active in antioxidant processes if absorbed.
- May be effective when used in high doses or alternative delivery methods (e.g., intravenous or liposomal encapsulation).
- **Cons**:
- Poor oral bioavailability due to degradation in the digestive system.
- Limited evidence on cellular uptake in ME/CFS, where metabolic dysfunction may further hinder absorption.
- May require higher doses, potentially increasing gastrointestinal side effects (e.g., nausea).
- **Suitability for ME/CFS**: Reduced glutathione is less ideal for ME/CFS due to its low bioavailability and potential energy demands for cellular uptake. Intravenous administration, though effective, is impractical and costly, requiring frequent medical visits, which may not be feasible for ME/CFS patients with limited energy.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)

### 2. S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione
- **Description**: S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione is a modified form of glutathione with an acetyl group attached to the sulfur atom of cysteine. This modification enhances stability and protects the molecule from degradation in the digestive tract, improving absorption and bioavailability. Once inside cells, the acetyl group is removed, releasing active reduced glutathione.[](https://thisvsthat.io/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione)[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)
- **Bioavailability and Cellular Uptake**:
- **General**: S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione is more stable than reduced glutathione and can pass through the digestive system intact, allowing better absorption into the bloodstream. Its lipophilic nature enables it to cross cell membranes, including the blood-brain barrier, more efficiently via passive diffusion, potentially delivering glutathione directly to cells. Studies suggest it may raise blood glutathione levels more effectively than reduced glutathione, with some sources citing up to a 69% increase in blood levels compared to other forms.[](https://thisvsthat.io/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione)[](https://www.biohackerslab.com/reviews/best-glutathione-supplements/)
- **ME/CFS Context**: For ME/CFS patients, S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione may be particularly advantageous due to its enhanced bioavailability and reduced energy demand for cellular uptake. Since it relies on passive diffusion rather than active transport, it may require less cellular energy, which is critical for ME/CFS patients with impaired mitochondrial function and low ATP production. Its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier could also support neurological health, potentially addressing cognitive symptoms (“brain fog”) common in ME/CFS. A study in rats showed improved cognitive function and reduced brain inflammation with S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione compared to L-Glutathione, though human studies are limited. Additionally, ME/CFS is associated with glutathione depletion in tissues like the brain, and S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione’s ability to reach these areas may offer targeted benefits.[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)
- **Pros**:
- Higher stability and bioavailability compared to reduced glutathione.
- Passive diffusion reduces energy demands for cellular uptake, potentially ideal for ME/CFS.
- Crosses the blood-brain barrier, supporting neurological health.
- No foul taste or odor, unlike some liposomal forms, improving compliance.
- Does not require refrigeration, increasing convenience.
- **Cons**:
- More expensive than reduced glutathione (e.g., $30–$50 for a month’s supply).[](https://optimalcircadianhealth.com/s-acetyl-l-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-reigns-supreme/)
- Limited human studies specifically on ME/CFS, though preclinical data is promising.
- Potential mild side effects (e.g., gastrointestinal discomfort) at high doses.
- **Suitability for ME/CFS**: S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione is likely the most suitable form for ME/CFS patients due to its high bioavailability, passive cellular uptake (minimizing energy use), and potential to address neurological symptoms. Its stability and ease of use (capsules or tablets) make it practical for those with energy limitations.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)

### 3. Liposomal Glutathione
- **Description**: Liposomal glutathione encapsulates reduced glutathione in liposomes—microscopic lipid spheres that protect the molecule from digestive degradation and enhance absorption. The liposomes merge with cell membranes, delivering glutathione directly to cells. It is available in liquid, gel, or capsule forms, often using branded sources like Setria® or LipoAvail™.[](https://infinitelabs.com/blogs/supplements/understanding-different-types-of-glutathione)[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)
- **Bioavailability and Cellular Uptake**:
- **General**: Liposomal glutathione offers superior bioavailability compared to reduced glutathione, with some studies suggesting up to 13 times higher absorption due to liposomal encapsulation. The liposomes shield glutathione from stomach acid and facilitate delivery across cell membranes, potentially including the blood-brain barrier. However, its stability may be lower than S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione, and some products require refrigeration to maintain efficacy.[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)
- **ME/CFS Context**: Liposomal glutathione is effective for increasing systemic glutathione levels, which could benefit ME/CFS patients by reducing oxidative stress and supporting detoxification. Its ability to deliver glutathione directly to cells may reduce the energy required for uptake compared to reduced glutathione, though it may still involve some active transport mechanisms, potentially requiring more energy than S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione’s passive diffusion. ME/CFS patients may benefit from its immune support and detoxification properties, as the condition is linked to immune dysfunction and toxin accumulation. However, the foul taste and odor of some liquid forms (e.g., described as “rotten fish”) and the need for refrigeration can reduce compliance, especially for those with sensory sensitivities or fatigue. Additionally, liposomal glutathione’s higher cost (e.g., $50–$80 for a month’s supply) may be a barrier.[](https://optimalcircadianhealth.com/s-acetyl-l-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-reigns-supreme/)[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)[](https://optimalcircadianhealth.com/s-acetyl-l-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-reigns-supreme/)
- **Pros**:
- High bioavailability, potentially surpassing S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione in systemic delivery.
- Effective for detoxification and immune support, relevant for ME/CFS.
- Available in various forms (liquid, capsules, gels) for flexibility.
- **Cons**:
- More expensive than S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione and reduced glutathione.
- Liquid forms may have an unpleasant taste/odor, reducing compliance.
- Limited shelf life (around 24 months) and may require refrigeration.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)
- Less evidence on crossing the blood-brain barrier compared to S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione.
- **Suitability for ME/CFS**: Liposomal glutathione is a strong option for ME/CFS due to its high bioavailability and systemic benefits, but it may be less ideal than S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione because of potential energy demands for uptake, higher cost, and compliance issues (taste, refrigeration). It may be preferred for patients with liver or immune issues, as it supports detoxification effectively.[](https://optimalcircadianhealth.com/s-acetyl-l-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-reigns-supreme/)

### Considerations for ME/CFS Patients
- **Energy Demands**: ME/CFS is characterized by profound fatigue and mitochondrial dysfunction, which limits cellular energy (ATP) production. S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione’s passive diffusion mechanism likely minimizes energy use compared to reduced or liposomal glutathione, which may rely on active transport to varying degrees. This makes S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione particularly appealing for ME/CFS, aligning with the claim you mentioned about it being energy-efficient.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)
- **Glutathione Depletion**: ME/CFS is associated with low glutathione levels, particularly in the brain and liver, contributing to oxidative stress and symptoms like fatigue and cognitive dysfunction. Supplements that effectively raise intracellular glutathione (S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione and liposomal forms) are critical for addressing this.
- **Neurological Benefits**: S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione’s ability to cross the blood-brain barrier may provide unique benefits for ME/CFS patients with neurological symptoms, such as brain fog or cognitive impairment, compared to liposomal glutathione, where evidence for brain penetration is less clear.[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)
- **Practicality**: ME/CFS patients often face challenges with supplement compliance due to fatigue, sensory sensitivities, and financial constraints. S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione’s capsule form, lack of odor, and no need for refrigeration make it more practical than some liposomal forms.
- **Research Gaps**: While preclinical studies (e.g., rat studies for S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione) and some human trials (e.g., for liposomal glutathione) show promise, there is limited research specifically on glutathione supplementation in ME/CFS. Most evidence is extrapolated from related conditions (e.g., chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia).[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)[](https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/12/16/microclot-endothelial-long-covid-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia/)

### Recent Studies and Insights
- **S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione**: A study in *Neurobiology of Aging* found that S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione improved cognitive function and reduced brain inflammation in rats compared to L-Glutathione, suggesting potential benefits for neurological symptoms in ME/CFS, though human studies are needed.[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)
- **Liposomal Glutathione**: Third-party testing (e.g., LipoAvail™) indicates up to 13 times higher bioavailability compared to standard glutathione, supporting its use for systemic benefits in conditions like ME/CFS.[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)
- **Reduced Glutathione**: Research highlights its role in immune response and detoxification but notes poor oral bioavailability, making it less effective unless delivered intravenously or via liposomal encapsulation.[](https://infinitelabs.com/blogs/supplements/understanding-different-types-of-glutathione)[](https://zacalife.com/blogs/blog/which-glutathione-supplement-is-best)
- **ME/CFS-Specific Context**: Studies suggest glutathione depletion in ME/CFS contributes to oxidative stress and immune dysfunction, with potential links to microclots and blood vessel issues. Supplementation may help, but no trials directly compare these forms in ME/CFS patients.[](https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/12/16/microclot-endothelial-long-covid-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia/)

### Recommendation for ME/CFS
- **Best Choice**: **S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione** appears to be the most suitable for ME/CFS due to its high stability, bioavailability, passive cellular uptake (minimizing energy demands), and ability to cross the blood-brain barrier, which may address neurological symptoms. Its practicality (no refrigeration, no foul taste) and lower cost compared to liposomal forms further enhance its appeal.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)
- **Alternative**: **Liposomal Glutathione** is a strong alternative for those prioritizing systemic detoxification and immune support, especially if liver issues are prominent. However, its higher cost, potential taste issues, and possible energy demands for uptake make it less ideal.[](https://optimalcircadianhealth.com/s-acetyl-l-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-reigns-supreme/)
- **Reduced Glutathione**: This is the least recommended for oral supplementation in ME/CFS due to poor bioavailability and potential energy demands, though it may be effective in intravenous form for those with access.[](https://thisvsthat.io/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione)

### Practical Tips
- **Dosage**: Start with a low dose (e.g., 100–200 mg/day for S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione or liposomal glutathione) to assess tolerance, as high doses may cause gastrointestinal discomfort. Consult a healthcare professional for personalized guidance.[](https://infinitelabs.com/blogs/nutrition/s-acetyl-glutathione-vs-liposomal-glutathione-which-one-is-for-you)
- **Quality**: Choose reputable brands (e.g., Setria® for reduced/liposomal glutathione, Emothion® for S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione) with third-party testing to ensure purity and potency.[](https://www.biohackerslab.com/reviews/best-glutathione-supplements/)
- **Complementary Support**: ME/CFS patients may benefit from precursors like N-acetylcysteine (NAC) or co-factors like selenium and vitamin C to boost endogenous glutathione production, reducing reliance on supplements.[](https://glutathionepro.com/liposomal-glutathione-vs-acetyl-glutathione-supplements/)
- **Monitoring**: Regular consultation with a healthcare provider is crucial, as glutathione supplements may interact with medications or cause side effects in sensitive individuals.

In summary, S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione is likely the best choice for ME/CFS patients due to its energy-efficient uptake, neurological benefits, and practicality, supporting the claim you read about its suitability. Liposomal glutathione is a viable alternative for systemic benefits, while reduced glutathione is less effective orally. Always consult a healthcare professional before starting supplementation, especially for ME/CFS, where individual responses vary.[](https://esliteglutathione.com/blogs/news/l-glutathione-vs-s-acetyl-glutathione-which-form-offers-better-health-benefits)[](https://effepharm.com/liposomal-or-s-acetyl-glutathione-how-to-choose-the-right-supplement/)