Dopamine Again Implicated in Fibromyalgia

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
These findings provide further support for a disruption of dopaminergic neurotransmission in FMS and implicate DA as important neurochemical moderator of differences in pain perception in FMS patients with and without co-morbid depression.

We recently saw that a Parkinson's drug called L-dopa that enhances dopamine may be an effective pain drug and asked whether ME/CFS and FM could be Parkinson's like disorders.

The destruction of the dopamine producing neurons in the basal ganglia causes the difficulty Parkinson's patients have in moving as well as their autonomic nervous system problems, their cognitive problems and their mood problems. Most of the dopamine producing neurons in the brain are found in and around the basal ganglia.

Several studies have implicated the basal ganglia in fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. A recent study found that reduced blood flows to the basal ganglia are associated with increased pain in fibromyalgia. ME/CFS studies suggest that reduced activation of the basal ganglia is associated with reduced reward and increased fatigue.
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[/fright]In this study researchers assessed the impact of dopamine availability on the ability of FM patients to discriminate between lower and higher pain intensities, the impact of psychological factors on their pain and their sensitivity to heat pain.

They used a PET scanner to determine how much the D2/D3 dopamine receptors affected these factors. The receptors, at least in part, affect how much dopamine is available in the central nervous system.

They found that dopamine availability in three parts of the basal ganglia (caudate nucleus, striatum and nucleus accumbens) was associated with increased pain sensitivity. The psychological effects on pain were not effected.

This suggests the dopamine enhancing drugs and herbs may be helpful in FM. Pramipexole, in fact, did well in a 2005 controlled, double-blinded fibromyalgia study. FM patients reported a 35% decrease in pain and about 40% had a 50% or greater reduction in pain. Fatigue dropped by an average of 30%.

For more check out:
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Eur Neuropsychopharmacol. 2015 Dec 10. pii: S0924-977X(15)00390-9. doi: 10.1016/j.euroneuro.2015.12.007. [Epub ahead of print] Relation of dopamine receptor 2 binding to pain perception in female fibromyalgia patients with and without depression - A [11C] raclopride PET-study. Ledermann K1, Jenewein J2, Sprott H3, Hasler G4, Schnyder U2, Warnock G5, Johayem A5, Kollias S6, Buck A5, Martin-Soelch C7.

  • Dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability at rest and its association with individual pain perception was investigated using the [11C] raclopride PET-method in 24 female Fibromyalgia (FMS) participants with (FMS+, N=11) and without (FMS-, N=13) comorbid depression and in 17 healthy women. Thermal pain thresholds (TPT) and pain responses were assessed outside the scanner. We compared the discriminative capacity, i.e. the individual׳s capacity to discriminate between lower and higher pain intensities and the response criterion, i.e. the subject׳s tendency to report pain during noxious stimulation due to psychological factors. [11C] raclopride binding potential (BP), defined as the ratio of specifically bound non-displaceable radioligand at equilibrium (BPND) was used as measure of D2/D3 receptor availability. We found significant group effects of BPND in striatal regions (left ventral striatum, left caudate nucleus and left nucleus accumbens) between FMS+ and FMS- compared to healthy subjects.

    Correlational analysis showed negative associations between TPT and D2/D3 receptor availability in the left caudate nucleus in FMS-, between TPT and D2/D3 receptor availability in the right caudate nucleus in FMS + and positive associations between TPT and D2/D3 receptor availability in the left putamen and right caudate nucleus in healthy controls.

    The response criterion was positively associated with D2/D3 receptor availability in the right nucleus accumbens in FMS - and negatively with D2/D3 receptor availability in the left caudate nucleus in healthy controls. Finally, no significant associations between D2/D3 receptor availability and discriminative capacity in any of the groups or regions were determined.

    These findings provide further support for a disruption of dopaminergic neurotransmission in FMS and implicate DA as important neurochemical moderator of differences in pain perception in FMS patients with and without co-morbid depression.
 

Aidan Walsh

Well-Known Member
My Brain Spect Scan showed decreased uptake to Basal Ganglia but on Prednisone my Spect Scan normalized but I still felt like Hell I know one Doctor who got well using once weekly 50,000 Vitamin D3 plus high doses of Prednisione with Oscal Calcium daily he fully recovered completely there is a link to Cortisol disruption plus other hormones Prednisone also reduces swelling especially in the Brain...My Spect Scan was featured in Hydes Book
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
My Brain Spect Scan showed decreased uptake to Basal Ganglia but on Prednisone my Spect Scan normalized but I still felt like Hell I know one Doctor who got well using once weekly 50,000 Vitamin D3 plus high doses of Prednisione with Oscal Calcium daily he fully recovered completely there is a link to Cortisol disruption plus other hormones Prednisone also reduces swelling especially in the Brain...My Spect Scan was featured in Hydes Book
Knocking down the immune system helps the basal ganglia...that makes sense according to Miller; he thinks it starts with immune activation.

It's amazing, is it not, the different things people. I had never heard of a protocol like that doctor's before.
 

Aidan Walsh

Well-Known Member
Prednisone also works on reducing spinal fluid pressure which has been shown to be in CFS the Oscal Calcium/vitamind3 was used to protect from the Prednisone...Dr Beverly Pearson Murphy used years ago Cortef with success in smaller doses...
 

Aidan Walsh

Well-Known Member
I had after first 2 years sick an emergency Lumbar Puncture done in Miami by a Neurologist my Pressure then was the highest he ever recorded it was over 500 he said it shot across the room & settled still high at 370 he put me on immediately 80mg of Prednisone I was swimming 3 days later in Miami I have always been on Steroids since then I was also on Cortef 5 to 10 mg daily...My ACTH has always come back low but not Addison's the Neurologist said he

suspected I had 'Pseudo Tumor Cerebri' which I believe is another name for IIH...My Cortisol over the years has at times but not always come back low 24 hour urine plus bloods...There is one Endocrinologist in the UK who finds through a better ACTH test low Cortisol with low growth hormone I do not recall the test but it also has something to do with Sugar levels as well...I saw a Neurologist in the UK he ordered a lumbar puncture it was right on border line 200

normal the fluid tested apeared to come back normal...He said that he did not think the diagnosis of IIH was correct he said it is rare in Males he thought I had an episode of I think he said Thrombosis...Getting back to Ehlers Danlos Syndrome there was a Paper Published by an Eye Doctor she is not well plus her daughter it was based on Diamox she has EDS type she started using Diamox in her & her daughter it was the difference between night and day she actually

swears by it I know years ago Gail Kansky's team found taking small dose Diamox for 3 days then stopping decreases the fluid pressure in the Brain I know in EDS which I believe is CFS/Fibro/GWI so called Lymies they use standing upright/sitting MRI of Brain Spine they find the following results in numerous 1. Chiari Malformation 2. Stenosis 3. Compressions & another thing found that can been seen by Doctors is 4. Tethered Spinal Chords...Most Doctors familiar

with EDS types will not use Supine MRI Brain Spine it misses these abnormalities plus some get sicker from the contrast used but not all...I will be going to London to be seen by the best EDS experts on the globe I will post those results I know countless patients diagnosed with CFS related disorders all have EDS types they were told M.E. as well...I had a Heart Scan done it also showed Dyastolic dysfunction...I was seen in '95 by Team at Hopkins Calkins Rowe Bou

Holaigah I had tilt table Syncope b.p.drop 80/30 this was years after Miami...I never responded to Midodrine nor Florinef nor Atenolol...Some Huge Research ongoing at Hopkins on a beat blocker used in Marfans Syndrome but not sure when that other Team will Publish in EDS they also find some have 'partial incomplete' Marfans Syndrome I wonder if this could explain in some the Spine growing longer but not sure also in EDS they can have mutiple types it is

called a 'crossoever' I have even heard Hypermobility types later to be to they have Vascular EDS 'VEDS' as well... I have heard that Peter Rowe sent over numerous patients to a Genetisist at Hopkins they all came back with an EDS diagnosis about half had Hypermobility others had other types such as Classical type...I also had another test a Bone Dexa Spine Scan it showed I have Osteopenia...In EDS types Osteopenia pushes patients into rare forms also I believe

very much the reason Researchers cannot come up with the same results in all patients is because so called CFS is not one illness it is numerous EDS types Dr Rodney Grahame of the Hypermobility Unit in London semi retired but still sees EDS patients said 95% of patients diagnosed with EDS have 'undiagnosed' EDS types I believe the reason he said 95% was the other 5% could have other types of Genetic disorders which when they evaluate patients they also rule

out other illnesses...He also was quoted that Michael Jackson very highly likely died for Ehlers Danlos Syndrome he was never properly diagnosed he said he could tell by his agility when well the way he moved also by photographs...If anyone has ever heard of some patients who tend to stare like PTSD they are like in a stance or thinking these patients usually have the Vascular type refered to as VEDS these Doctors in EDS can pretty well tell just by looking at patients if

they have EDS or not...I have heard of patients with EDS also who had a CFS diagnosis turn out to have a rare type called Tenascin X EDS...On eds see Annabelle's Challenge she was diagnosed young with Vascular VEDS EDS I think it would be very easy immediately for Dr Ian Lipkin send CFS blood sample from patients to EDS Genetics I have no doubts he will find EDS plus also there are tests used also on Spinal fluids...Mark my words now EDS is CFS GWI Fibro

so called Lyme I have also looked at numerous patients with a diagnosis of MS who were told the Doctors were not happy with an MS diagnosis they re-diagnosed patients with EDS types...EDS is are Protein Collagen mutations passed on from either or both Parents the symptoms in Family members can be different some never become Sick but could be carriers it can even jump generations...I will post once I get seen by London Team I will be going to the

National Orthopedic Hospital in Stanmore UK I did mention recently that I was diagnosed with BPPVertigo it could also be Meniers or Migraine Associated Vertigo which sounds like IIH but also could be another name call Mal De Debarquement I have a History of Flight as a Pilot plus I used to work on Ships for years as well these both can trip off Vertigo issues so can injuries Sports accidents etc etc I know of people fully recovered from Vertigo issues in fact one is

seen on YouTube he is the President of the UFC he went to Germany they did something with his blood cells then injected it back into him he was completely recovered in 3 days he went back for his final injection 3 months later he tried the Surgey for Menieres it did not work one procedure Surgery for Menieres in banned in some places in Europe...Pope John Paul II had this blood treatment years ago for his knees it is also called the Kobe Bryant procedure he also used

it for a knee injury his Bone in knees was rubbing against each other he was sprinting 3 days later also baseball player A.R. went there as well including numerous Stars Athletes they all went to a Clinic opened 7 days a week in Dusseldorf Germany I wonder if this is where Cher went years ago but not sure...Bubble Boy Disease was recently Cured using a 'similar' type of therapy as Germany...Some with Meniere's recover with certain types of vitamins

mineralsplus they avoid caffeine including high Salt intake or alcohol see meniers.ca or meniereshelp.com also numerous You Tube videos on Menieres there is one Doctor in USA his wife has CFS he has Menieres he came up with vitamin mineral diet protocol some respond immediately...blesses HAPPY NEW YEAR HOPEFUL CURE(S) IN 2016 PEACE...p.s. *Cort interview Dr Rodney Grahame ask him about the EDS connection he is the Tops in the World a very brilliant

Man this is someone Lipkin should be in touch with now I am sure he can be reached at the Hypermobility Unit in London it would also make a great You Tube Video to raise Awareness to get much needed funding :)'s
 
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Zapped

Well-Known Member
@Aidan.Pretty darned interesting details! I tend to concur with the prednisone protocol you referenced but am fumbling a little in getting the right balance... .

After synthesizing some varied research I have been self-experimenting with high doses of D3 (10k per 1 kg of body weight) and low doses of prednisone (20mg week one, decreased by 5 mg weekly, then 5-10 mg ~ 2 weeks) . I did ~6 weeks and stopped, w/o noticeable affects. (I missed control for Calcium, but did have some Ca intake.)

I also tried same with Methyl
Prednisolone (it too being as yet an uexploited hormone for this malaise).

While I'm leery of high doses of prednisone, from your varied experience I would appreciate your opinion as to how you might modify the above regimen to enhance the chances for favorable results?
 
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Aidan Walsh

Well-Known Member
@Aidan.Pretty darned the interesting details! I tend to concur with the prednisone protocol you referenced but am fumbling a little in getting the right balance... .

After synthesizing some varied research I have been self-experimenting with high doses of D3 (10k per 2.5 kg of body weight) and low doses of prednisone (20mg week one, decreased by 5 mg weekly, then 5-10 mg ~ 2 weeks) . I did ~6 weeks and stopped, w/o noticeable affects. (I missed control for Calcium, but did have some Ca intake.)

I also tried same with Methyl
Prednisolone (it too being as yet an uexploited hormone for this malaise).

While I'm leery of high doses of prednisone, from your varied experience I would appreciate your opinion as to how you might modify the above regimen to enhance the chances for favorable results?
I think the first thing anyone should do is see if their Cortisol comes back low if it is high I would not use Prednisone or Cortef...Cortef is what Dr Bev Murphy was using but at 5 to 10 mg daily...The Vitamin D3 has all around hormones a Doctor in Brazil is using it in MS/CFS even Parkinson's there is a Facebook link

on D3 run by Ana Anna...Prednisone is used also in Vertigo conditions plus low dose can help with blood pressure as well...I would ask your Doctor anything to do with Steroids he would be your best answer...It is the only drug that ever helped me but did not resolve the illness...As mentioned one Endo in UK uses

Growth Hormone/Cortisol type meds...I will see if I can find the Endocrinologist link & the test he uses...Also the D3 if one uses over 10,000 I.U. daily they must stop Calcium/Dairy intake...Dr Coimbra is also on YouTube on D3 he had said Vitamin D3 is like a master key to a large building doors on Genetics it opens all the doors...
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. I did review Dr Coimbra's research last year and now recall this was the reason I avoided Calcium - but did add Vitamin K-2, apparently for proper distribution systemically.

I'm ~30 years into CFS, and like you I recall Prednisone made me feel better
early on - around onset. Docs around here have not been savvy on realizing the signifance of this illness, let alone treating it, sic outside the 'box' with steroids (cellular communicators).

I got the basic symptoms treated with a jaundiced eye from the GP's in a very parochial, insular medical structure where I live -very frustrating! I got to the point of seeking out a doc who knew more than me (about CFS - possible etiologies and treatments...without much success, locally; but many quacks)!

I no longer feel comfortable with any general practice docs; only select specialists. Otherwise, dear energy and much money is and has been wasted. (And I'm not alone: the information age has exposed how little doctors really know - after their boom as shamans, having 'magically' "cured" Polio, not; but that's another story. This is no doubt correlated to the reason so many are uphappy and leaving 'Medicine', as published.)

Finally, I bought the med and pharm texts and dug in; and then embarked on following the research as it evolved (having long ago earned degrees; some of which translated for wading through the technical stuff). So, I'm a maverick and use int'l sources for ethical meds.

As an aside, Cort and only a few select others have been tremendously helpful in pursuing relevant and even obscure research and published it in digestible form with annotations for more detail - to help synthesize new permutations vs waiting on the 'cure' - when I'm pushing up daisies!
 
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Aidan Walsh

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. I did review Dr Coimbra's research last year and now recall this was the reason I avoided Calcium - but did add Vitamin K-2, apparently for proper distribution systemically.

I'm ~30 years into CFS, and like you I recall Prednisone made me feel better
early on - around onset. Docs around here have not been savvy on realizing the signifance of this illness, let alone treating it, sic outside the 'box' with steroids (cellular communicators),

I got the basic symptoms treated with a jaundiced eye from the GP's in a very parochial, insular medical structure where I live -very frustrating! I got to the point of seeking out a doc who knew more than me (about CFS - possible etiologies and treatments...without much success, locally; but many quacks!)

I no longer feel comfortable with any general practice docs; only select specialists. Otherwise, dear energy and much money is and has been wasted. (And I'm not alone: the information age has exposed how little doctors really know - after their boom as shamans, having 'magically' "cured" Polio, not; but that's another story.)

Finally, I bought the med and pharm texts and dug in; and then embarked on following the research as it evolved (having long ago earned degrees; some of which translated for wading through the technical stuff). So, I'm a maverick and use int'l sources for ethical meds.)

As an aside, Cort and only a few select others have been tremendously helpful in pursuing relevant and even obscure research and published it in digestible form with annotations for more detail - to help synthesize new permutations vs waiting on the 'cure.)
There are really only 2 things that stand out in CFS & that is 'good' Vitamins Minerals/Nutrition the rest is total Garbage...The less Medicine one takes the better off they are...Coimbra is no doubts onto something huge providing People stay off the Dairy/Calcium over 10,000 D3
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
There are really only 2 things that stand out in CFS & that is 'good' Vitamins Minerals/Nutrition the rest is total Garbage...The less Medicine one takes the better off they are...Coimbra is no doubts onto something huge providing People stay off the Dairy/Calcium over 10,000 D3
I would mostly agree, excepting those medicines that have been experientially proven to work - and NOT by mathematical, sic statisical manipulation (to prove a presumptive theory).

FWIW, IMO, steroids can ease of a lot of problems; they can also kill you!
 

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