Help understanding CellTrend antibodies?

[Remy]

I recently did the CellTrend testing for CFS/POTS...came up with two positive results, so I'm trying to figure out what my next steps might be.

I don't think I understand exactly how these antibodies work...or what treatments might be most effective. Does anyone have any good sources of information on this?

Here is the full list of the antibodies tested with my positive results in bold:

• Beta-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Beta-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M1) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M2) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M3) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M4) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M5) receptor auto-antibodies
• Alpha-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Alpha-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies

From this article:

• The autoantibodies may also exert an allosterically mediated positive modulatory effect upon b1AR and a negative modulatory effect on a1AR activity.

but then this:

These autoantibodies appear to function as partial agonists and the absence of measurable direct activation of the transfected receptors in vitro in the absence of their normal ligand does not exclude their presence. It is possible this allosteric impact on the activity of the a1AR ligand norepinephrine represents the distinct pathophysiological feature characteristic of POTS.

Midodrine is an alpha 1 agonist...so does that mean that the antibody is actually blocking the receptor site, keeping it from functioning properly? Or is it activating it, in which case an alpha 1 blocker might seem to make more sense? It seems like the two quotes are actually contradictory.

We have recently demonstrated an exaggerated catecholamine response in postural tachycardia among patients with syncope and dysautonomic cardiovascular response to orthostasis.19 The catecholamine surge may be seen as a compensatory mechanism to override the a1AR malfunction associated with the proposed autoimmune blockade as present in POTS patients but this explanation is unlikely in those with recurrent VVS.

So wouldn't it be likely that blocking the exaggerated catecholamine response would improve symptoms? Is there a good way to do this?

Does this also go along with the lowered levels of neuropeptide Y that have been reported in cases of lowered resilience to stress and PTSD? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8752116

 

[smtl]

I've got 11/11 positive. But I'm not completely sure if the test is reliable. I've mailed one doctor mentioned in https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...energic-muscarinic-receptor-antibodies.46698/ about that.

A short answer
I dont believe in the Celltrend results!!
They cannot reproduce their results.

--
Priv.Doz. Dr.med. Wilfried P. Bieger
Privatpraxis – FA Labordiagnostik
Klinische Immunologie –Infektionen
Stressmedizin – Neuroendokrinologie
Augustenstrasse 10 Bavariahaus
80333 München

 

[Remy]

I've got 11/11 positive. But I'm not completely sure if the test is reliable. I've mailed one doctor mentioned in https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...energic-muscarinic-receptor-antibodies.46698/ about that.

Wow, 11/11!
They seem pretty responsive there so I wonder what would happen if you asked them to do a spot check of their results to double check?

 

[smtl]

They've answered that it couldn't be false-positive and that no re-testing needs to be done. I trust them, just not sure what to do next I've asked them if they could recommend some doctors who could consult me further on that.

 

[Issie]

I'm in a study with the Dr's Lights at University of Utah. She checked these antibodies on me and said I was okay. I don't have the test results, just her telling me this. I know they are doing research on this and I think Dr Bateman may be. You could contact them.
I have high NE levels with standing. It is probably a compensation to help blood flow. When I suppressed it, I got much worse. A lot of POTS people use middodrine if they have low blood pressures. It helps constrict blood vessels and they say it helps them. For me, it was one of the worst things I tried. We are all different. Hard to know how you'd react. Sort of a trial and error thing.
Issie

 

[Audrey Amir]

HI
I was trying to find the study you referred to, but only coming up with a Dr. Alan Light at Univ of Utah. Do you have a link or any information on this study?
Thanks

 

[Issie]

http://batemanhornecenter.org/gene-variations-mecfs/



Here is what Dr Light gave a few weeks ago at Stanford.

 

[Audrey Amir]

Thanks!! I will watch it. That is the Dr. Light that I found. I had seen a very interesting talk on genetics by him.
Thank you again for sharing. I was looking into this test for a family member to see if it was worth doing.

 

[SarahTee]

I recently did the CellTrend testing for CFS/POTS...came up with two positive results, so I'm trying to figure out what my next steps might be.

I don't think I understand exactly how these antibodies work...or what treatments might be most effective. Does anyone have any good sources of information on this?

Here is the full list of the antibodies tested with my positive results in bold:

• Beta-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Beta-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M1) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M2) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M3) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M4) receptor auto-antibodies
• Muscarinic cholinergic (M5) receptor auto-antibodies
• Alpha-1 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies
• Alpha-2 adrenergic receptor auto-antibodies

From this article:


but then this:



Midodrine is an alpha 1 agonist...so does that mean that the antibody is actually blocking the receptor site, keeping it from functioning properly? Or is it activating it, in which case an alpha 1 blocker might seem to make more sense? It seems like the two quotes are actually contradictory.



So wouldn't it be likely that blocking the exaggerated catecholamine response would improve symptoms? Is there a good way to do this?

Does this also go along with the lowered levels of neuropeptide Y that have been reported in cases of lowered resilience to stress and PTSD? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8752116

I know this is an old post, but it caught my eye because muscarinic and adrenergic antobodies are often mentioned in POTS research these days. I don’t know whether that’s significant or not, or whether they are looking at the same ones as on your test.

This channel has several lectures on the topic of auto-immunity that might be relevant:

https://vimeo.com/dysautonomia