Holtorf Touts COQ10 for Fibromyalgia and Chronic Pain

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Two recent studies prompted Dr. Holtorf to do a blog recommending CoQ10
CoQ10 Can Reduce Fibromyalgia Pain, Fatigue and Morning Stiffness

"The first study, conducted by researchers and reported in the Journal Antioxidants and Redox Signaling, sought to measure the effects of CoQ10 supplementation on adult patients with fibromyalgia. The researchers noted that both mitochondrial dysfunction and CoQ10 deficiency have been implicated in fibromyalgia pathophysiology.

In the study, patients who were given 300 milligrams (mg) of CoQ10 daily for 40 days saw reductions in pain, fatigue, morning stiffness and tender points. Other positive findings included recovery of inflammation, improvement of antioxidant enzymes, and an increase in the ability of the mitochondria to regenerate. Mitochondria are responsible for cellular energy production. AMPK gene expression levels also recovered in the patients given CoQ10 treatment. Notably, one of the AMPK enzyme functions is to instruct mitochondria to switch from using energy to producing energy.

The researchers have previously studied the link between mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress and inflammation in fibromyalgia. Based on the study results, they concluded that CoQ10 could be part of an effective therapy for fibromyalgia."

Holtorf recommends the ubiquinol form:

"CoQ10 comes in two forms – ubiquinol, the active antioxidant form, and ubiquinone, the oxidized form, which the body partially converts to ubiquinol. Many multi-ingredient supplements contain both forms, however, ubiquinol has greater antioxidant efficiency than the ubiquinone form."

Another study:

"In Redox Report, researchers looked at increased oxidative stress and CoQ10 deficiency in juvenile fibromyalgia patients. Lab tests conducted at the beginning of the study showed that children with fibromyalgia had significantly decreased serum plasma levels of ubiquinol, and a significantly increased ratio of ubiquinone (oxidized CoQ10) to total CoQ10, compared to healthy controls, suggesting that fibromyalgia is associated with CoQ10 deficiency and increased oxidative stress, according to the researchers.

Next, the researchers supplemented the children with 100 mg per day of ubiquinol-10 for 12 weeks. The patients saw significant improvements in chronic fatigue scores, as well increased Co10 levels and decreased ubiquinone levels. The researchers concluded that CoQ10 status may be impaired in subjects with juvenile fibromyalgia and that supplementation with CoQ10 may be of benefit."
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with CO-Q10 I have my quarts delivered daily.

But certain Holtorff activities, really???

Maybe he and Teitlebaum could partner up on a network of nationwide opportunistic clinics 'treating' desperately sick people... to Myer's cocktails and Ampligen fries or the like, specials of the week -
3 servings for three grand per.

Not to worry about costs - financing available for all under contract.

For credibility call it the H-T Institute and locate it around the corner from a real medical pioneer, Dr. John Chia's office (regrettably).

Geez, my stand goes up at the end of the driveway tomorrow. 'Got to catch the traffic... . (MF'ers, not to be confused with Methylation Functions.)

Note: check the cynicism against health grade ratings/backgrounds, readily accessible online. Ethical journalism is committed to truth even if shady characters and dealings are uncovered which don't justify subsequent professional ameliorative ploys. 'Let them eat cake'!
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
I understood before I replied... (Acerbic wit... doesn't parse words, nor suffer fools... .)

'Just opened the door for another turn of the screw.:cool:

(I really think these guys are low-lifes. It would not bother me to see them painted red
and wearing bells - let everyone know... .)
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I understood before I replied... (Acerbic wit... doesn't parse words, nor suffer fools... .)

'Just opened the door for another turn of the screw.:cool:

(I really think these guys are low-lifes. It would not bother me to see them painted red
and wearing bells - let everyone know... .)
I like Holtorf - he checks off all the boxes - pathogens, HPA axis, immune factors, methylation, etc. I think these diseases are hard to treat though....plus it's obviously incrediblyt expensive to get treated - I can't afford these guys - and even then I imagine that success rates are not all that high. Unless methylation, diet, gut, endocrine, pathogens findings are all crap, though - they must help some people (????)

Teitelbaum gets the same reaction but we just had a recovery story from someone who recovered using his protocols and several stories have mentioned him.... Sometimes it works...
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
But do the means justify the ends, here? The clinics have rather sordid ratings from multiple participants and
rating agencies.

I looked into the clinic here a number of years back when it was active with Teit. Man, it was (is?) a sneaky set up.
Fortunately, I'm a doubting Thomas by nature and I got my hands on their contract, and that took some effort - not
freely offered from the hdq in Houston (as I recall).

It was rather one sided and onerous and full of gotcha's (and I have many years experience in contracts/business/legal in my background).

I wouldn't have signed it without scratching out a majority of the sentences.

Further, you didn't see any guru who was state of the art in CFS. You initially saw a fill-in local doc then dealt with a PA or less, regularly; and only saw the lead doc once in a while. It was really a shameless self serving arrangement.

As one poster said "I don't see how they can take people's money and sleep at night."

Maybe Holtorf is better but I believe he is now involved in that same clinic w or w/o Teit. It's at the same
location. I have watched Holtorff's lectures on You Tube and he doesn't impress me as being a committed
doc - more of a slick business-oriented seminar type, IMHO. I sure wouldn't send a family member to
him, even if he makes exceptions to his 'bio-identical gene therapy', which reviewers have labeled as
quackery.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
But do the means justify the ends, here? The clinics have rather sordid ratings from multiple participants and
rating agencies.

I looked into the clinic here a number of years back when it was active with Teit. Man, it was (is?) a sneaky set up.
Fortunately, I'm a doubting Thomas by nature and I got my hands on their contract, and that took some effort - not
freely offered from the hdq in Houston (as I recall).

It was rather one sided and onerous and full of gotcha's (and I have many years experience in contracts/business/legal in my background).

I wouldn't have signed it without scratching out a majority of the sentences.

Further, you didn't see any guru who was state of the art in CFS. You initially saw a fill-in local doc then dealt with a PA or less, regularly; and only saw the lead doc once in a while. It was really a shameless self serving arrangement.

As one poster said "I don't see how they can take people's money and sleep at night."

Maybe Holtorf is better but I believe he is now involved in that same clinic w or w/o Teit. It's at the same
location. I have watched Holtorff's lectures on You Tube and he doesn't impress me as being a committed
doc - more of a slick business-oriented seminar type, IMHO. I sure wouldn't send a family member to
him, even if he makes exceptions to his 'bio-identical gene therapy', which reviewers have labeled as
quackery.
I went to Holtorf's clinic - briefly. Didn't have the money to continue but my experience was different. I saw a regular MD - no fill-ins.

I think Holtorf and Teitelbaum come across in similar ways - which hurts them at times. Particularly Teitelbaum is more sales oriented. I think they're both serious physicians though. Teitelbaum's from Fatigued to Fantastic is still the most comprehensive approach to ME/CFS and FM that I've seen.

If you look at Holtorf's reviews they're actually pretty darn good - people seem to either think he's practicing way over his head (is a scam) or people are very happy with him. Many more people are happy with him than are not and a significant number of those who rate him poorly simply don't believe in his hypotheses...
Holltorf has published a couple of reviews by the way. I saw him at a conference - his big there was that endocrinologists don't read the scientific literature!
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
Well, hands on trumps paperwork... . And the circles in which you travel probably predisposes you to be more generous.
I'll compromise by agreeing with the opening premise of theu thread, that CO-Q10 is great and I like it
so much I brush me teeth with it - the dogs' as well. :)
Oh, and caveat emptor.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Well, hands on trumps paperwork... . And the circles in which you travel probably predisposes you to be more generous.
I'll compromise by agreeing with the opening premise of theu thread, that CO-Q10 is great and I like it
so much I brush me teeth with it - the dogs' as well. :)
Oh, and caveat emptor.
;) :smuggrin:
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
Yelp reviews in holtorff are pretty bad. I'm a cynic like @Zapped but one success story in how many years does not inspire confidence.

And Cort, what's the point if you can't afford it?

I know people who use SHINE as a starting point but I think teitlebaum over sinplfies how easy that all is.

I get this is a miserable disease to treat and it's hard to get good results but I don't hear people being this negative about Chia, Lerner, Enlander and others.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Yelp reviews in holtorff are pretty bad. I'm a cynic like @Zapped but one success story in how many years does not inspire confidence.

And Cort, what's the point if you can't afford it?

I know people who use SHINE as a starting point but I think teitlebaum over sinplfies how easy that all is.

I get this is a miserable disease to treat and it's hard to get good results but I don't hear people being this negative about Chia, Lerner, Enlander and others.
I don't see how you can say the reviews for Holtorf are bad. (Actually now I do you were using Yelp and I was using a doctors rating system). Most of the reviews on the doctors rating system are VERY good - which given the clientele seeing him - people who have probably been to many doctors before him - I think it's a pretty impressive record actually.

He stacks up similarly to other ME/CFS doctors - and he has a lot more reviews for some reason. Nobody has nearly as many reviews as he does.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
You're right though - tons of really bad reviews on Yelp :vomit: Wow....

A lot of dissatisfied customers!

I would stay away :stop:
 
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Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I'm looking up reviews on these ME/CFS/FM experts...Who am I missing?


Dr. Lucinda Bateman
Dr. John Chia
Dr. Daniel Dantini
Dr. Derek Enlander
Dr. Ken Holtorf
Dr. Charles Lapp
Dr. Martin Lerner (deceased)
Dr. Susan Levine
Dr. Jose Montoya
Dr. Dan Peterson
Dr. Irma Rey
Dr. Mark Sivieri
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
I'm looking up reviews on these ME/CFS/FM experts...Who am I missing?
How could you omit the Godfather of soul - no, not that soul (James Brown) - but the doc who started
most of us down this path = Paul Cheney! (OT now, if you know what I mean...:cyclops:).
There's a doc at Emory who has kept quiet, doing Mito stuff, often referenced but I can't think
of his name off hand???
That reviewer's list will be great, no doubt! (Add: maybe you could put their orientation adjacent to their
names, e.g. Dr. I. B. Phatt - Mito, Researcher, Systemic, HPA, I.D., et al., and it will become THE source
for CFS specialists. Think big...then there's Jeprody, Gold Rush... .):hungry:
 
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Who Me?

Well-Known Member
Yelp is my bible for reviews. I use it for everything. Dentist, handyman or restaurant.

I know there are good and bad reviews for everything. Some of the medical sites don't allow for comments. I like when people comment that a doctor is good but the office staff is bad.

Or the one for Holtorf who felt like she got good information but felt like she was being pressured to buy stuff from them when she got it for much less. I also did not like how Holtorf responded with specific medical information about a treatment plan. Doesn't that violate HIPPA?

Doctors who have no respect for a patients financial situation is a problem for me. My NP has never once said I have to buy something from her. In fact one doc fired me for non-compliance when I would not buy stuff from him.

@Cort Kaufman. Klimas, Vira?
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
How could you omit the Godfather of soul - no, not that soul (James Brown) - but the doc who started
most of us down this path = Paul Cheney! (OT now, if you know what I mean...:cyclops:).
There's a doc at Emory who has kept quiet, doing Mito stuff, often referenced but I can't think
of his name off hand???
That reviewer's list will be great, no doubt! (Add: maybe you could put their orientation adjacent to their
names, e.g. Dr. I. B. Phatt - Mito, Researcher, Systemic, HPA, I.D., et al., and it will become THE source
for CFS specialists. Think big...then there's Jeprody, Gold Rush... .):hungry:
I also forgot Kogelnik and Kaufman :)

Thanks for the ideas - the Bible - I love it :)
 

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