If you think having high antibody titers always means infection, read this!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Remy, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    For everyone with elevated antibody titers to common infections, From Dr Naviaux:

    https://www.omf.ngo/2016/09/09/viruses-and-cfs-statement-by-ron-davis-and-bob-naviaux/
     
    Merry, Hip, Hope and 2 others like this.
  2. Hope

    Hope Active Member

    But I've read that PCR is not an accurate way to test for a virus, by blood anyway (not sure if lymph nodes might be more accurate) as its hit or miss whether that particular blood sample might contain viral DNA.

    So to say that PCR can prove that high viral titers are meaningless seems a big stretch. Maybe viral titers really are meaningless if the immune system is impaired but I just don't think PCR proves it when it shows negative for viral fragments.
     
    IrisRV likes this.
  3. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    My infectious disease doc told me that old latent infections that get deep in the tissues don't shed much virus into the blood so PCR is not a ruling-out test. In other words, a PCR positive test definitely shows an infection, but the negative test does not guarantee no infection.

    As I understood it, most people don't have deep tissue infection, which may be the result of an immune system weakness that lets the infection smoulder and spread cell-to-cell through tissue slowly over many years. This wouldn't be the usual case with supertitres, I imagine, but may be the case in some patients.

    These may be the exceptions OMF was referring to.

    It's clear a number of patients improve significantly with AVs, so something is going on in those cases. It may not be suppression of viral replication, but some other effect of the AVs that helps. Or maybe some patients really do have reactivated infections.

    My daughter fights EBV. She gets mono symptoms and her IgG titres rise. If we wait long enough, her EBV Early Antigen titre gets high enough to confirm viral reactivation, but it's harder to fight the infection back into latency if we wait for the EA titre than if we go by symptoms and increasing titres. Make of that what you will.
     
    Hope likes this.
  4. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    I’ve read that same thing too about viral shed into blood and consequently treated with Valtrex, Valcyte, cidofovir, Famvir etc etc for almost 2 years.

    Surely these research scientists know that this is the common lore. Many of their clinical colleagues are still prescribing antivirals based on high antibody titers. I believe that they are saying that is the wrong approach with full knowledge of the controversy.

    I’m also not ruling out antiviral drugs working in as yet unidentified ways, like modulating adenosine too. Lots of drugs “work” and we don’t really understand how or why.
     
    Hope and IrisRV like this.
  5. Hip

    Hip Well-Known Member

    I've recently been reading about Dr Martin Lerner's abortive infection theory of ME/CFS.

    Abortive infections can create high antibody titers, yet nothing much shows up on PCR blood tests, because in abortive infections, although cells are virally infected, they do not create any new viral particles (this is similar in some ways to latent viral infections, but abortive infections are distinct from latent infections). Lerner posited that abortive herpesvirus infections are the cause of ME/CFS.

    I just started a thread about Dr Martin Lerner's abortive herpesvirus infection theory of ME/CFS here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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