Iron and inflammation

[RuthAnn]

I have a friend who makes the best observations and asks the best questions, which led me to this study:
The synergistic effects of vitamin E and selenium in iron-overloaded mouse hearts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12903410

And that led to this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12903410

[Modulation of the inflammatory response through complement-neutrophil activation feedback mechanism with selenium and vitamin E].

 

[Remy]

So it looks like everyone was solidly on this selenium/Vit E bandwagon...enough so that they did a big study called the SELECT trial that started in 2001 (a year after these papers were published). Unfortunately it was a failure at preventing cancer. And may have even increased the risk for cancer and diabetes.

Here is a summary of the SELECT trial (there are also some criticisms of the trial listed at this site):

SELECT is the second large-scale study of chemoprevention for prostate cancer. Chemoprevention or chemoprophylaxis refers to the administration of a medication to prevent disease. The SELECT trial aimed to determine whether dietary supplementation with selenium and/or vitamin E could reduce the risk of prostate cancer among healthy men. It is a randomized, prospective, double-blind study with a 2×2 factorial design, which means that the volunteering men received either one of the supplements, both supplements or no supplements (but placebo instead), without knowing which treatment they would receive.
The trial volunteers were randomly assigned to one the following treatments:

• 200 µg of selenium and 400 IU of vitamin E per day. (both supplements)
• 200 µg of selenium per day and placebo
• 400 IU of vitamin E per day and placebo
• two different placebo’s (neither supplement)
• (µg = micrograms, IU = International Units)

Enrollment for the trial began in 2001 and ended in 2004. Supplements were to be taken for a minimum of 7 years and a maximum of 12 years. Therefore the final results were anticipated in 2013. However, but due to the negative preliminary results, SELECT participants still in the trial are now being told to stop taking the pills. The participants will continue to have their health monitored by study staff for about three more years, continue to respond to the study questionnaires, and will provide a blood sample at their five-year anniversary of joining the trial, to ensure their health and to allow a complete analysis of the study. (see SELECT Q & A).

So based on this trial, another paper from 2015 went back to summarize the selenium studies and came to some disturbing conclusions...namely that selenium may be causing the very oxidative stress that it is purported to relieve.

J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2015;33(3):328-68. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2015.1055163.
Selenium and Human Health: Witnessing a Copernican Revolution?
Jablonska E1, Vinceti M.
Author information
Abstract
In humans, selenium was hypothesized to lower the risk of several chronic diseases, mainly due to the antioxidant activity of selenium-containing proteins. Recent epidemiologic and laboratory studies, however, are changing our perception of the biological effects of this nutritionally essential trace element. We reviewed the most recent epidemiologic and biochemical literature on selenium, synthesizing the findings from these studies into a unifying view. Randomized trials have shown that selenium did not protect against cancer and other chronic diseases, but even increased the risk of specific neoplasms such as advanced prostate cancer and skin cancer, in addition to type 2 diabetes. Biochemical studies indicate that selenium may exert a broad pattern of toxic effects at unexpectedly low concentrations. Furthermore, its upregulation of antioxidant proteins (selenium-dependent and selenium-independent) may be a manifestation of self-induced oxidative stress. In conclusion, toxic effects of selenium species occur at lower concentrations than previously believed. Those effects may include a large range of proteomic changes and adverse health effects in humans. Since the effects of environmental exposure to this element on human health still remain partially unknown, but are potentially serious, the toxicity of selenium exposure should be further investigated and considered as a public health priority.

Even more disturbing was this part...

"Biochemical studies indicate that selenium may exert a broad pattern of toxic effects at unexpectedly low concentrations."

It's long been assumed that selenium is safe under about 400 ug/day but it's looking like that may not be true.

Until we have some more research, I think I'd be wary of selenium at all, unless you've tested low for it specifically. And I'd definitely take mixed tocopherols if taking Vit E.

I'm going to cross post this at the selenium thread I started the other day too.

 

[RuthAnn]

Selenium and vitamin E cause cancer. Of course, I forgot about that.

 

[RuthAnn]

Do NOT eat Brazil Nuts, either, Remy!
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol) 7.6 mg 38%
Thiamin .8mg 55%
Niacin .4mg 2%
Vitamin B6 .1mg 7%
Pantothenic Acid .2mg 2%
Choline 38.3 mg
Betaine .5 mg

Minerals​

Amounts Per Selected Serving
Magnesium 500mg 125%
Potassium 876 mg 25%
Zinc 5.4mg 36%
Copper 2.3 mg 116%
Manganese 1.6mg 81%
Selenium 2550 mcg 3643%



Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3091/2#ixzz40LoUeBc8

 

[Remy]

Do NOT eat Brazil Nuts, either, Remy!
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol) 7.6 mg 38%
Thiamin .8mg 55%
Niacin .4mg 2%
Vitamin B6 .1mg 7%
Pantothenic Acid .2mg 2%
Choline 38.3 mg
Betaine .5 mg

Minerals​

Amounts Per Selected Serving
Magnesium 500mg 125%
Potassium 876 mg 25%
Zinc 5.4mg 36%
Copper 2.3 mg 116%
Manganese 1.6mg 81%
Selenium 2550 mcg 3643%



Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3091/2#ixzz40LoUeBc8

I don't know if it's as simple as just avoid all selenium...there's the fact that selenium does seem to have a profoundly powerful effect on lowering Hashi's antibodies. I don't know how it does this but if I had Hashi's, it would still be one of my first line suggestions. And nutrients from food tend to be much more benign than supplements for some reason. More research needs to be done but I think caution is warranted until that point with some of this new data that is coming out.

 

[RuthAnn]

Remy, you don't think the studies by SELECT might be biased seeing that they are pushing chemo prevention, do you?


SELECT is the second large-scale study of chemoprevention for prostate cancer. Chemoprevention or chemoprophylaxis refers to the administration of a medication to prevent disease. The SELECT trial aimed to determine whether dietary supplementation with selenium and/or vitamin E could reduce the risk of prostate cancer among healthy men. It is a randomized, prospective, double-blind study with a 2×2 factorial design, which means that the volunteering men received either one of the supplements, both supplements or no supplements (but placebo instead), without knowing which treatment they would receive.
The trial volunteers were randomly assigned to one the following treatments:

• 200 µg of selenium and 400 IU of vitamin E per day. (both supplements)
• 200 µg of selenium per day and placebo
• 400 IU of vitamin E per day and placebo
• two different placebo’s (neither supplement)
• (µg = micrograms, IU = International Units)

Enrollment for the trial began in 2001 and ended in 2004. Supplements were to be taken for a minimum of 7 years and a maximum of 12 years. Therefore the final results were anticipated in 2013. However, but due to the negative preliminary results, SELECT participants still in the trial are now being told to stop taking the pills. The participants will continue to have their health monitored by study staff for about three more years, continue to respond to the study questionnaires, and will provide a blood sample at their five-year anniversary of joining the trial, to ensure their health and to allow a complete analysis of the study. (see SELECT Q & A).

 

[Remy]

Remy, you don't think the studies by SELECT might be biased seeing that they are pushing chemo prevention, do you?

It's entirely possible that they might be biased...there are some criticisms of the study in the blog post that I linked.
But in this case, the supplements, selenium and Vit E, are the agents of chemoprophylaxis that they are studying...not a traditional medication.

 

[RuthAnn]

It's entirely possible that they might be biased...there are some criticisms of the study in the blog post that I linked.
But in this case, the supplements, selenium and Vit E, are the agents of chemoprophylaxis that they are studying...not a traditional medication.

Right, but it was done in the Upjohn Center, as in Upjohn pharmaceuticals.

 

[Remy]

Right, but it was done in the Upjohn Center, as in Upjohn pharmaceuticals.

Where are you seeing Upjohn?

Locations
United States, Illinois
Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center at Northwestern University
Chicago, Illinois, United States, 60611-3013
Midwest Center for Hematology/Oncology
Joliet, Illinois, United States, 60432
Cardinal Bernardin Cancer Center at Loyola University Medical Center
Maywood, Illinois, United States, 60153
United States, Missouri
St. John's Regional Health Center
Springfield, Missouri, United States, 65804
CCOP - Cancer Research for the Ozarks
Springfield, Missouri, United States, 65802
United States, Ohio
Good Samaritan Hospital Cancer Treatment Center
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States, 45220
Bethesda North Hospital
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States, 45242
Tod Children's Hospital
Youngstown, Ohio, United States, 44501
United States, Oklahoma
LaFortune Cancer Center at St. John Medical Center
Tulsa, Oklahoma, United States, 74104
United States, Pennsylvania
Geisinger Medical Center
Danville, Pennsylvania, United States, 17822-0001
Geisinger Medical Group - Scenery Park
State College, Pennsylvania, United States, 16801
Frank M. and Dorothea Henry Cancer Center at Geisinger Wyoming Valley Medical Center
Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, United States, 18711
United States, Tennessee
U.T. Cancer Institute at University of Tennessee Medical Center
Knoxville, Tennessee, United States, 37920-6999
Sponsors and Collaborators
Southwest Oncology Group
National Cancer Institute (NCI)
Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group
Cancer and Leukemia Group B
NCIC Clinical Trials Group

 

[RuthAnn]

Oh, sorry, that was a different study of the same sort. Let me look up your source. Thanks

You can look up all those sites that participated in the study and see if you trust the outcome.
Here's what I found at the first location's website that I looked up:
No proof that X-ray radiation causes cancer, according to Loyola Medicine radiation oncologist

 

[Who Me?]

@Remy you recently posted asking about siffernt types of selenium right?

And with this, so no selenium? I take 200 mcg per my NP's recommendation. I think I had been taking it since I have osteopenia.

And where does E fit in? I take mixed tocopherols and I know others who take gamma E

i did read this but it might as well be written in Martian.