NERIs will also increase epinephrine.

Good point about the vagus nerve stimulator. There's also huperzine and galantamine that increase acetylcholine.

I switched to the 300 mg Swanson brand of PS at night and use Enerphos during the day.

Progesterone, estrogen and cortisol are definitely related. It's coincidental that the problems began with a hormone shift. Maybe it's more than coincidental?

I think you're right. I KNOW that estrogen and/or progesterone are related to my cortisol levels, but doctors don't seem to be on the same page.

Will an increase in acetylcholine increase the parasympathetic nervous system activity?

I asked a medical professional (I don't remember who it was) and they said drugs like Wellbutrin would only increase neurotransmitters in the brain, not in the body. I feel I have a need to increase epinephrine in both body and brain, but I predominantly need it in the body.
 

Remy

Administrator
Will an increase in acetylcholine increase the parasympathetic nervous system activity?
Yes, because acetylcholine is the main neurotransmitter of the parasympathetic arm.

NERIs will inhibit reuptake of both NE and epinephrine...now whether or not you have enough to inhibit reuptake of is a different story. But of the antidepressants, Wellbutrin seems about the safest and best tolerated with little withdrawal syndrome.

Wouldn't increasing neurotransmitters in the brain increase them in the body as well? There would be more to send out to the various body parts with their target message, in theory anyway.

Have you tested your E and P levels with Body Logic recently?
 
Yes, because acetylcholine is the main neurotransmitter of the parasympathetic arm.

NERIs will inhibit reuptake of both NE and epinephrine...now whether or not you have enough to inhibit reuptake of is a different story. But of the antidepressants, Wellbutrin seems about the safest and best tolerated with little withdrawal syndrome.

Wouldn't increasing neurotransmitters in the brain increase them in the body as well? There would be more to send out to the various body parts with their target message, in theory anyway.

Have you tested your E and P levels with Body Logic recently?

Wellbutrin might be worth a try. Wouldn't high doses of EGCG do the same thing - keeping the catecholamines in my system longer?

I use a very small amount of E and P cream. The levels are well below normal.

Would Phosphatidyl choline increase acetylcholine?
 
Lots of hypothesis, not concrete.

For some reason many of us hold our breath, we forget to breathe. For me, especially with exertion. (Funny that my sis and her kids do it too.) I wonder about balance between. CO2 and O2. I think we imbalance it somehow. Then we try to correct it with hyperventilating. That desperate feeling of I can't breathe is horrible.

http://www.dannyroddy.com/weblog/thebaldnessfield
In addition to increasing the number of mast cells in a given tissue, estrogen induces mast cell degranulation releasing inflammatory agents such as histamine, prostaglandins,serotonin, and nitric oxide.[24] In contrast, carbon dioxide, which is produced under the direction of good thyroid function, inhibits mast cell degranulation.[25]
____________________
But mast cells can also cause issues with lung function and an anaphylaxis response. When this happens with me, I drink children's liquid Allegra to get it in my system fast. Sit down and try to not hyperventilate and calm the autonomic system down. Breathe through my nose and not pant. I also take extra GastroCrom. I have had that not work and had an overnight hospital stay as mast cells affected my heart - called Kounis Syndrome. Treatment is high amounts of antihistamine and nitroglycerin.

Issie
My air hunger is definitely NOT hyperventilation. I breathe very slowly. The best way to describe it is that I have to work hard to breathe air in and my chest feels tight and not relaxed. My heart and lungs test fine.
 

Remy

Administrator
Wellbutrin might be worth a try. Wouldn't high doses of EGCG do the same thing - keeping the catecholamines in my system longer?

I use a very small amount of E and P cream. The levels are well below normal.

Would Phosphatidyl choline increase acetylcholine?
Yes but the anti-thyroid effects of the ECGC would be counterproductive.

In theory, PC should increase choline but alpha GPC is probably more effective than liquid PC for that purpose.

Maybe some more hormones would help!
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
I just learned something else, that I suspected. Appears in some people progesterone can trigger a mast cell degranulation. Was listening to a seminar from a doc in NY and she has a patient that reacts as I do to progesterone. It gives me terrible hot flashes as does most of my mast cell "attacks" . I get a headache first, then hot flashes then near anaphylaxis. My husband can tell before me when I'm about to have an attack - he says my skin starts to get really warm.

Issie
 
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Issie

Well-Known Member
Hyperzine A is a cholinergic inhibitor (so more stays in play and is not eliminated). It's not recommended by some to use long term. But I've read of some MG patients who find it better than meds. And use it on a regular basis. Also some Alzheimmers people are finding it helpful.

Wellbutrin is a reuptake inhibitor not only norepinephrine but dopamine. It was tried with me when they thought I had Parkinson. Since my catachlomines of NE are already too high it was a diaster. I didn't need either one increased. Intensified all the worst symptoms.

Issie
 
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Issie

Well-Known Member
My air hunger is definitely NOT hyperventilation. I breathe very slowly. The best way to describe it is that I have to work hard to breathe air in and my chest feels tight and not relaxed. My heart and lungs test fine.
There is a guy on the DINET site that always had the same issue with his breathing. He found out he has sojourn and small fiber neuropathy. He did IVIG for a while. Haven't heard from him lately. Don't know what else he tried. His breathing was his worst complaint.

Issie
 

Remy

Administrator
I just learned something else, that I suspected. Appears in some people progesterone can trigger a mast cell degranulation. Was listening to a seminar from a doc in NY and she has a patient that reacts as I do to progesterone. It gives me terrible got flashes as does most of my mast cell "attacks" . I get a headache first, then hot flashes then near anaphylaxis. My husband can tell before me when I'm about to have an attack - he says my skin starts to get really warm.

Issie
That's odd considering progesterone is typically considered to be a mast cell inhibitor.

Admittedly, the hormonal interplay is complex and not well understood, but I'd be surprised if it was actually the progesterone causing problems.

From the article,
'Progesterone inhibits mast cell secretion'

Here we report that progesterone (100 nM), but not the structurally related cholesterol, inhibits histamine secretion from purified rat peritoneal mast cells stimulated immunologically or by substance P (SP), an effect also documented by electron microscopy.

These results suggest that mast cell secretion may be regulated by progesterone and may explain the reduced symptoms of certain inflammatory conditions during pregnancy.
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
That's odd considering progesterone is typically considered to be a mast cell inhibitor.

Admittedly, the hormonal interplay is complex and not well understood, but I'd be surprised if it was actually the progesterone causing problems.

From the article,
'Progesterone inhibits mast cell secretion'
I guess there are also some that actually develop an "allergy - immune response" to their own hormones. I suppose that could happen with supplementing hormones too. Don't know if that was my issue, but another possibility. I have some pretty difficult autoimmune issues.

Issie
 

JollyRoger

New Member
Finally someone with the same condition...
I have a absent epinephrine in my urine (<0.1).
They measured it twice because they can't believe it.

I'm sooooo tired, breathing problems and leg pain and I think the lacking epinephrine is the problem.

Do you have bulging veins?
I'm looking like a competitor bodybuilder with all this veins on my arms.
Epinephrine is a vasoconstrictor and without it blood doesn't reach heart and lungs which leads to breathlessness.
My 24h cortisol test showed spikes every time I was active.
 
Hi JollyRoger,
Please email me at Suekmurphy@cox.net and I will give you my phone number so we can talk.
I actually do NOT have bulging veins. I have mild venous insufficiency though, which is very common.
My oxygen levels are always good.
Since epinephrine expands the lungs, it makes sense that a lack of epinephrine would cause air hunger.
It would be great if you could talk an endocrinologist to do a plasma catecholamine test.
 

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