Mast Cell - Histamine (Immunotherapy With Histamine)

The Plot Against Asthma and Allergy Patients: Asthma, Allergies, Migraine, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome are Curable, but the Cure is Hidden from the Patients (Felix Ravikovich, 2003).

I have no doubt that this book will inspire young researchers and hopefully awaken some clinical allergologists. — Prof. Dr. Cezmi A. Akdis – Head of Immunology – Swiss Institute of Allergy and Asthma Research


https://bookos-z1.org/book/5262975/5ff148
https://www.scribd.com/document/62194357/The-Plot-Against-Asthma-and-Allergy-Patients
https://www.thehistamineconnection.com/
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
I'm reading the book and find it fascinating!

My having Mast Cell Activation Syndrome or (over response).... I think of all the antihistamines I've taken and wonder what has it done. In the past month (even before finding this book), I felt the need to take myself off them. I haven't been completely successful. But having added some flavonoids and enzymes.....I'm being able to mostly be off them. I'm having more reaction with foods and taking note. But I feel my mind is much clearer.

Would you Private message me on this forum? I'm not very far into the book yet. But enough to raise plenty of questions.

Thanks for posting this!
Issie
 
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Issie

Well-Known Member
The above article really gives a pretty good summary of histamine and all the receptors and what they do. I'm still reading the book and it is such an eye opener. Lots of supporting information on histamine as a way to actually treat illness. But getting the receptors to work properly is key. I'm still trying to process the information and plan to put this to the test to see if it will help. I'm already off most my MCAS medicine for over a month now. This will be huge if I can get it to work for me.
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
I have been using a histamine cream for a few weeks now. Starting to figure out when and how much to use. Having less issues. Still being able to stay off my MCAS medicines. Off over 2 months now. I'm very hopeful. (And I've been in ICU due to MCAS issues.)

For one thing, my brain function/fog is a whole lot better. And my pain is better. I think with less inflammation occurring with keeping the mast cells from degranulating as much and having suppressor T cells moderating inflammation....may be why. At least, that is the desired response, according to the book. This also has a moderating effect on glutamate and the excitotoxin affect that has.

I still have to be super careful of my diet as I can be triggered very fast with it. (Or getting over tired or over hot.)

But, I'm also sleeping better. Apparently mast cells don't degranulate with true, restful sleep. But when its fitful....could be a night of unreshresing sleep along with MCAS symptoms. I have found zinc and P5P to be helpful here.

Also was suggested to use Vit C to bowel tolerance with the breakthrough. I got a non citrus Vit C, as I figured out citrus to be a trigger for me. I also added Vit E to keep Vit C in desired form and not add more ROS issues.

I have had a couple of times of having to use GastroCrom as an Emergency, when I didn't get my timing right on my cream. But, starting to get it figured out.

I never knew how important it is to have histamine and the receptors working correctly. It is needed for the autoimmune system to work properly and to take down inflammation by moderating cytokines.

I think of the 8 years I took MCAS medicines non stop. Them not really helping that much and my brain getting worse and pain being my worst symptom. What was I setting myself up for.....because of ignorance? I did not know and did not know another way. Or that the problem was the functioning of the receptors at fault.

I always have been one to ask WHY. And WHY NOT. At last, I have another WHY. And it goes along with the intelligence of the body trying to "fix" a problem. A compensation that needed a fine tuning tweak. I think I'm getting it tweaked a little better now. Let's hope that not only I, but others, may be closer to having our "purple bandaid".

There is HOPE, and I'm Encouraged!!!!

People, get in touch with Bayard here. He is a wealth of knowledge on this subject. I feel one of my prayers is being answered.
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
Trying to find another way to tame down these trigger happy, over responding mast cells......is the goal. I'm not having a huge success with the cream I'm trying now, but have another one ordered - with less ingredients. It's not a goal to add more histamine to the body. The goal is to stop so much over production of the body own mast cell degranulation. Trying to get the suppressor H2 and H3 to easier detect when it is there and maybe stop the so easily triggered mast cell response. Sort of an immunology type treatment.

It's still an ongoing experiment for me. Not there yet......
 
Histamine Induces Microglia Activation and the Release of Proinflammatory Mediators in Rat Brain Via H1R or H4R.

 
@Issie
"Trying to find another way to tame down these trigger happy, over responding mast cells......is the goal"

I think over responding mast cells is simpy a cause and effect from certain toxic elements, the 3 most signifigant are: aluminium, mercury and pesticides . Of course there is also a lot different pesticides but to name one major is roundup .

Aluminium and mercury are adjuvants , they are added to vaccines to boost immuno response. So lets think this , a substance that makes body immuno mechanism response more powerfull, mast cells are part of the immuno system and are triggered to start producing many chemicals , but the problem is something have stimulated mast cells way too much,over to point where they are acting without any reason. Aluminium is everywhere ,and mercury also is common and most are getting it from vaccines as child.

Of cource there is a lot toxic substances also other than those 3 , fluoride,chlorine, cigarette,drugs, dioxins, PCBs etc



So i think the mast cell & histamine issues are basically caused by enviromental pollutantants that have awful effect on immuno system and whole body. If people get adjuvants , and after vaccines start get them more and more from food, drugs etc (many drugs are loaded with aluminium ) i think it is reasonable to conclude that it can indeed cause the immuno system to go in to fighting mode .


There is good enterosorbent, Enterosgel , it is a binder that is taken with water, juice and it just travels on there and binds aluminium and many other bad substances, it also binds histamine .


Sorry, did not reat the book that Bayard mentioned
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree that much if what we ingest and are exposed to are toxic to us. Some of us "sensitive " ones especially. I've done much detox and binders and still have the issues. I'm also super careful what I eat and environmentally expose myself to. But that hasn't "remedied " the issues. I personally don't take vaccines any more (had them as a child with terrible consequences).

The book above has been of benefit to me and learning the value of histamine has too. Very possible it being upped is a compensation and trying to rectify things. The problem being, the receptors are malfunctioning and need to be reset. I'm getting closer to having that happen now.
 

junkcrap50

New Member
Any update @Issie ? Any success? What histamine product / cream are you using? Australian Dream? There is a subcutaneous histamine medication, called Ceplene. Used to increase tumor killing activity of NK cells.
 

junkcrap50

New Member
Also, from looking online at patient reviews, it sounds like Dr. Felix Ravikovich, the author of the book, did not use histamine cream, but rather bee venom therapy. Have you tried to contact Dr. Ravikovich to ask him any question or seek any advice?
 

junkcrap50

New Member
Lastly, I haven't read the book yet or other papers but since the H2 receptor is the anti-inflammatory one, which one would try to stimulate. Would it help to take an H1 blocker while taking histamine to localize the added histamine to the H2R? (H3R and H4R blockers would probably be too risky.)

Also, looks like there are some specific H2 agonists, but doesn't look like it's available as medication. Research chemicals only. See image below. Source: https://resources.tocris.com/pdfs/archive/histaminrev.pdf

1588995384387.png
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
In other illnesses like Alzheimer's, MS, narcolepsy they are increasing histamine at the H3 receptor. The H2 helps to turn on that receptor. So for sure the goal is to activate the H2R as that also activates the T suppressor cells and that helps with immune function. Not thinking I would want to block H3R either, as it has been shown to be beneficial to be on and working.

I was using a different histamine cream. It had less things in it and worked better for me. If I felt a slight twinge of a MCAS starting to happen, I could apply it and after a bit would stop the MCAS "attack". By tampering down the release of my own histamine and giving it externally and tricking the H2R to activate, I avoided the degranulation of my own mast cells. (At least that is how it appeared to work for me.)

Also, the histamine cream, I use, has menthol in it and that has a bit of an oxytocin affect and that helps with other issues with immune function and sense of wellbeing, and mast cell issues. I'll put link to one I went with.

I'm not on it right now, trying to see if I have things reset. I still have to watch diet carefully. But doing better all around. Soooooo much better with brain functioning being off the antihistamines. And many other things seem to be improving. Has not been an easy thing to reset however and been a lot of trial and error.

ALO Pain Relief Cream Therapy (4 oz) for Arthritis, Back Pain, Sciatica, Plantar Fasciitis, Tennis Elbow, Sore Muscles & Joints Inflammation - Working Out Aches, Acute Pain and Chronic Pain https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B1MB1AY/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_HSITEb41NP3A9

Maybe Bayard will comment. He knows a lot more than me on this.

You asked about bee venom. I have a bit of experience with it. Used it for nerve pain after a surgery. There is a bee venom cream. But that causes a huge mast cell response. It is also pretty painful. The ALO cream was a slight bit burning from the menthol, but was much easier to tolerate. And seemed a milder mast cell response. You will initially have a mast cell response when you first put it on. I use a very, very small amount. I'm not trying to add more histamine, I'm trying to turn on the H2R receptor with histamine. But there will still be histamine and it is needed to do what it does. We need it to work for us. But we need to moderate how much and not have too much and the MCAS response or over response in this case.
 
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Felix Ravikovich used a drug called histaglobulin, which is a combination of histamine and gamma globulin applied subcutaneously, and which was used in allergy settings, especially in Eastern Europe and Japan. The objective was to activate the histamine H2R and H3R regulatory receptors, and to counter-regulate the signal of the pro-inflammatory H1R and H4R receptors. When histaglobulin was discontinued, Ravikovich used bee venom containing histamine, until he was banned from using histamine.

Histamine receptor agonist alleviates severe cardiorenal damages by eliciting anti-inflammatory programming.

 

junkcrap50

New Member
Wow thank you so much @Issie and @Bayard T. Horton for your replies. Very interesting stuff.

@Issie , how did you transition from stopping all histamine blockers to starting the histamine cream? I imagine you started with a tiny amount of cream, like half a pea size 1x/day to start. How did you avoid mast cell flare ups in the beginning while taking low doses creams but still had mast cell issues say at meal times or at exertion?

@Bayard T. Horton , are you attempting the same histamine reset as Issie? How has it been going for you? Did you have MCAS? Also, do you know what Dr. Ravikovich's protocol was with histaglobulin? How dosing was increased / frequency. What troubleshooting he did when running into complications?
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
It has been a slow process and a lot of trial and error.

First I tried to focus on diet and what I may had been doing to cause more issues. Changing that helped.

Since I have such bad issues with MCAS and it can trigger all sorts if things for me, I have liquid GastroCrom on hand. (I still have to use it occasionally if I can't get on top of it fast enough.) Had to resort to a swig of liquid Allegra few times too. But for sure off the H2 blocker and other blocker for H3.

I started out with a tiny amount of cream in the morning and then again at mid day. The original protocol was to space it out evenly 2 times a day. But I found it would keep me from having restful sleep as mast cell activity doesn't let one sleep. And from research, if you sleep well, mast cells won't degranulate while sleeping. So trying to get better sleep is important too. I was applying it to my abdomen as the H2 is mainly in the gut and I was trying to get it closest to there. I also, might put it where I had pain that day, instead of abdomen. Like back, neck, shoulders. (It is BTW for pain, cream.)

As for sleep, very recently I found Nettle tea to give a slight mast cell response and then settle and make me very sleepy. I also use a combo Bee pollen/propolis/ royal jelly and that helps a lot. Even helping environmental allergies this year. Parsley is another go to for me.

I found if I started to feel a twinge of mast cell coming, I could use the cream then and it would be milder and then subside. This was a bit later in using it. I reserved it for when I felt something happening. Now, not using to see where I am in process. Still having flares however.

But not needing to use antihistamines now. Occasional GastroCrom. Still watch diet closely.

Also found that PEA helps MCAS and also pain. I use it 2 times a day. One, I use in morning, also has lutolin in it. One at night, does not. I found the lutolin gives me energy and I couldn't sleep with it. I do find however, this does increase a bit more brain fog. Clarity wise, I'm better without it. But when in a flare, it helps pain and MCAS.

It's still an ongoing endeavor. But I realize now how bad it had been for my brain to be on such antihistamines for so long. And I don't know what I did to my immune system. No wonder I was always in such pain and dysfunction.

Sometimes our symptoms are compensation and the lessor of two evils. Just moderating function or lack of, makes more sense than completely blocking and stopping what may be trying to save us. But that again has to be done with caution and having backups when we are talking about possible anaphylactic responses. (And I've had those, and been hospitalized for them.) So, just attempting this has been a risk for me. But I feel it is paying off.

I've also concentrated strongly on lymph, liver and kidney detox and function.

This is not my only focus either. Dejurgen and I are researching together on a few other hypothesis and making headway with that too. We both are still in experiment stage, but we both find benefit. We are getting some WHYS. In search of our "purple bandaids".

There is a link posted below this, on one of our threads and the other one can be looked up easily. We will update those occasionally as we get more certain of our approach.
 
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dejurgen

Well-Known Member
Issie and I have been looking into several issues for some time and slowly but steadily proceed.

She had been looking into MCAS, histamine release and antihistamines and the idea of moderating histamine release rather then blocking it for some time. I failed to understand how things could work but if I learned one thing it is not to soon dismiss Issie's keen observations and medical intuition. She kept coming back on the topic and I kept failing to see the more chemical why's behind it. I want to find and know chemical or physical pathways in order to better learn how to deal with it.

It was a very difficult search for sure but a number of months ago I finally did find something I can wrap my brain around. That does not mean that what Issie said that far did not make sense, but my mind too is still limited so I needed something I knew better, being basic chemical reactions, to tie this whole new idea she was talking about to.

"AA was found to have much higher reactivity towards histamine than towards indoleamines. For example, when a reaction mix-ture of AA (1 mM) and histamine or tryptamine (5 mM) in 0.1M phosphate buffer (pH 7.4) was incubated at 37 °C for 24 h, AA decreased by 11% in the case of tryptamine, while in the case of histamine, it decreased 88%."

Here, AA stands for acetaldehyde. I came to this paper after learning that histamine is quite a reactive chemical, easily and quickly forming chemical reactions with many different types of chemicals. So I went for a hunt of what histamine could potentially react with in order to neutralize or detoxify. I got closer by learning that indoleamines, which is a class of chemicals including neurotransmitters serotonine and melatonin, react quite quick with histamine.

Still, that was an unlikely target for possible detoxification. Then I did find this rare hit that it reacts even a lot faster with acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde is a toxic chemical that negatively affects much of the neurologic system and relates to several of our disease symptoms. In addition, mast cells react to acetaldehyde and release a selective part of their toxic load when triggered by it. That was the start of a new part of our journey.

Since then, our ideas that histamine being high in MCAS is not just a process gone wrong, but a compensation mechanism with unpleasant side effects grew just as much as the idea that too high acetaldehyde is an important part of our personal health problems.

Before us, AcH_Influenced https://www.healthrising.org/forums/threads/measured-high-endogenous-acetaldehyde-blood-levels-discovered-something.6126/ came to similar ideas from a different and experimental angle.

Acetaldehyde being too high isn't that unlikely in our conditions. Many patients report frequent episodes of deep air hunger. Several researchers point to our cells not taking oxygen up. So it is easy to assume that there is something wrong with oxygen uptake and availability.

That in sort borderlines to partial hypoxia, and hypoxia or too low oxygen is a common inducer of high oxidative stress in the cells and mitochoindria. Too high oxidative stress in the mitochondria is well known to interact with the phospholipids of cell and mitochondrial membranes and produce plenty of toxic acetaldehyde while damaging the membranes. So high acetaldehyde and the need to detoxify it at an increased rate is a likely hypothesis.

Normally, acetaldehyde detoxification is done through the ALDH enzymes. One major problem here is that that is a dehydrogenation reaction. The name hides it, but that is a reaction requiring... ...oxygen. Even in the chemical reaction it's not plain obvious, as it's linked to the production of NADH. During (even partial) hypoxia oxygen obviously is short, so chances that "conventional" pathways to detoxify acetaldehyde are partly crippled are real. If so, an alternative detoxifying route would be more then welcome.

Reacting with histamine to a more benign product would offer such option. Histamine has the benefit of increasing local blood flow too, potentially increasing oxygen flow towards the tissue in hypoxia and increasing removal of toxic waste products. The end result of this chemical reaction, 4-methylspinaceamine, has been found in human urine according to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002432050400952X with title
"Identification of 4-methylspinaceamine - a Pictet – Spengler condensation reaction product of histamine with acetaldehyde - in human urine"

Stinging nettles BTW contain histamine and tea of it is sometimes used by naturopaths to treat the effects of too high histamine and allergies.
 
I am recovered from my health problems that were MCAS compliant but did not have an official diagnosis. I have not used exogenous histamine cream as Issie, my approach was based on orthomolecular medicine.

Dr. Ravikovich's protocol was personalized according to the characteristics of the person and the condition he was trying to cure. In the book there are some aspects of it, although it does not go into much detail either. It was based on his great clinical experience treating hundreds of patients, especially allergies in the broad sense, not only IgE allergies, but also the most complex patients with what he calls encephalopathies that included the CFS.

In the last pages of the book you can find an article that Dr. Ravikovich tried to publish in scientific magazines and that was rejected where he explains that the treatment is highly individualized.

Acetaldehyde - A Common and Potent Neurotoxin
 

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