ME,CFS,EDS,FM,MS,Myasthenia Gravis and Alzheimers and Acetylcholine

Discussion in 'Other Research' started by AquaFit, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. AquaFit

    AquaFit Active Member

    I posted this on an old POTS thread yesterday, but I thought I'd start it as new one today for more eyes to see. Would love thoughts!

    I know the healthrising and phoenixrising communities and researchers have examined acetylcholine before. I wanted to take the concept one step further in looking for biomarkers which would predict who would do badly on antivirals and first generation histamines, some antibiotics, anesthesia and other anticholinergic drugs.

    I've been reading government studies on POTS, ME, CFS, MS, Autoimmune Myasthenia Gravis, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Pseudocholinesterase Deficiency, all of which consider acetylcholine. A theory of Alzheimers is that it's caused by anticholinergic medication use throughout life. (Which lowers levels of acetylcholine in the body). Rituxamab targets acetylcholine receptors. Apparently abnormal growths in the body, including cancer, can trigger an autoimmune response. I guess this is why Rituxamab, though a cancer drug, was found to have application to other autoimmune diseases.

    There's a test which determines if a person would be sensitive to the anesthetic Succinylcholine. (It also tests for organophosphate poisoning.) Could this be the "biomarker" for patients who won't respond well to anticholinergenics? https://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cholinesterase/tab/test/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26785775 Effect of M3 muscarinic acetylcholine receptor deficiency on collagen antibody-induced arthritis.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497293/ Relation between Pro-inflammatory Cytokines and Acetylcholine Levels in Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis Patients (there's many more studies that examine MS and acetylcholine)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25087056 The value of acetylcholine receptor antibody in children with postural tachycardia syndrome.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26399744 Antibodies to β adrenergic and muscarinic cholinergic receptors in patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497293/ Relation between Pro-inflammatory Cytokines and Acetylcholine Levels in Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis Patients
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC153771/ Immunization with neuronal nicotinic acetylcholine receptor induces neurological autoimmune disease
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5105265/ A targeted genome association study examining transient receptor potential ion channels, acetylcholine receptors, and adrenergic receptors in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15190684 Alzheimer's disease and acetylcholine receptors.
    https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/pseudocholinesterase-deficiency/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1692155 Acetylcholine receptor antibodies in primary biliary cirrhosis: characterization of antigen and idiotypic specificity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
    Merida and Tia like this.
  2. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Active Member

    Wow, you've connected some dots, but its too technical for my wee brain at the moment, however the association between the diseases you list (POTS, ME, CFS, MS, Autoimmune Myasthenia Gravis, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Pseudocholinesterase Deficiency, and Alzheimer's) makes me wonder if one day all these 'different' illnesses will be discovered to be on the same spectrum under acetylcholine dysfunction.
     
    Merida likes this.
  3. Serena

    Serena New Member

    Could anyone briefly explain the role of acetylcholine and are there ways of treating it? ie supplements etc.
     
  4. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    I am definitely going to do a blog on those antibody results! (Unless you would like to aquafit - that would be great).
     
  5. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    My understanding is that acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that the vagus nerve and autonomic nervous system runs off of.
     
    Merida likes this.
  6. Serena

    Serena New Member

    Thanks Cort, I did just have a look up on wikipedia, it sounds interesting so I will have to research more.
     
  7. AquaFit

    AquaFit Active Member

    It would be FANTASTIC if you'd write a blog, Cort! When I finally was in a position to go to university and take some writing courses, I developed migraines from studying or working full time. I normally help journalists put info together for stories.

    A few more studies - interestingly, there's an EDS type which affects the heart and we all know we have tachycardia as well as fainting with ME/CFS - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15041034
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12950326
    Just found this resource today though they quote studies third hand, not so useful: http://me-pedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine

    A friend of mine read this post yesterday and told me about genetic genie. There's an article there from 2013 which coincidentally looked at the acetylcholine CFS connection and did mention some helpful foods. (I guess I'm only reinventing the wheel!) http://geneticgenie.org/blog/2013/1...chronic-illness-the-hunt-for-the-missing-egg/

    This is an article on how to boost neurotransmitters with food (and supplements but those have limited use) but we'd have to know which ones we're low on: https://bebrainfit.com/balance-neurotransmitters/

    I'm wondering if doctors shouldn't be having everyone, with and without CFS, check their genes and look for acetylcholine related information so as to know if we should avoid anticholinergics like certain antibiotics, first generation antihistamines, anesthesia, antivirals, etc. Also, AIDS patients. Are the AIDS patients who have to take life long antiretrovirals who are naturally low on acetylcholine developing CFS? Will they eventually become bedridden as they age?

    BTW, found this study relating benign joint hypermobility and CFS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16396727

    Unrelated, but did everyone hear a new body organ's been discovered? The mesentary. It's related to digestion, and may help to figure out IBS, etc.: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4356
     
    Lissa likes this.
  8. AquaFit

    AquaFit Active Member

    True, and more!

    http://www.e-safe-anaesthesia.org/sessions/15_05/d/ANAE_Session/377/tab_466.html
    http://www.e-safe-anaesthesia.org/sessions/15_05/d/ANAE_Session/377/tab_466.html#

    Acetycholine relates to so many symptoms. I just found this chart (considering cancer) which seems to indicate that acetylcholine can boost all neurotransmitters. Maybe Nancy Klimas or another researcher can enlighten. http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v9/n3/fig_tab/nrc2590_F2.html

    As for the connective tissue diseases aspect, that would be I think an interesting Part II to a blog. How a fetus is affected either through genetics or what mothers take in and how that affects the developing body and connective tissue. There are studies that examine acetylcholine and collagen and myasenthia. I have autoimmune symptoms but parts of my body are also wearing out prematurely. My environmental health doctor told me that malathion can definitely cause problems for fetuses. Organophosphates affect acetylcholine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16782587 When I was pregnant my doctor didn't warn me not to use mosquito repellant but I knew. I think anyone who's used a lice kit containing malathion on their child should sue the manufacturer, pharmacy and government. It's surreal that FDA approved this and CDC recommends it: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lice/head/gen_info/faqs_malathion.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377491/

    http://www.pnas.org/content/95/16/9654.full.pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12480538 -interesting, but I'm unclear what this study means.
     
    ScottTriGuy likes this.
  9. AquaFit

    AquaFit Active Member

  10. AngelaSLC

    AngelaSLC New Member

    I'm wondering if anyone created a blog about this since it's been a couple of years? I was researching Pseudocholinesterase Deficiency and acetylcholine levels when I found this. I have A-Typical BuChE, which is a gene variant on the BCHE that causes Pseudocholinesterase Deficiency, mentioned in Aquafit's post....plus a bunch of other health issues.

    AquaFit connected some dots that I suspected. I have so many questions - but where is AquaFit?