Naviaux and Davis - Antiviral Opinions

[Andrew P]

www.openmedicinefoundation.org/2016/09/09/viruses-and-cfs-statement-by-ron-davis-and-bob-naviaux/

where does his leave the use of antivirals with me/cfs now?

i was going to start valtrex.

 

[Tina]

Just saw this come across my FB feed. A statement put out by Ron Davis and Bob Naviaux today, September 9, 2016:
http://www.openmedicinefoundation.o...d-cfs-statement-by-ron-davis-and-bob-naviaux/

 

[Empty]

I think ongoing virus is 99% problem for me. It is frustrating not knowing for sure. Almost strong enough to trial herbal stuff next.

 

[Issie]

I've said all along that some of our "symptoms " may in fact be good and a compensatory response.

Also if my understanding is correct, if we have antibodies to something, our immune system is aware of and working on the problem. If we can get our immune system to start being active and working on the problem things should start to improve. For example, a friend of mine kept getting tested for Lyme. She had all the symptoms. Yet her test was always negative. However, after she started IVIG and got her immune system more in gear her next two test showed positive. She is now being treated for Chronic Lyme and starting to feel better.

Sometimes symptoms that are not pleasant are the better of the evils. Could be our bodies mechanism for trying to correct something worse. Another example, I have HyperPOTS and very high norepinephrine levels with standing. That causes tachycardia and anxiety. But it is my body way of increasing blood flow to my heart and brain. However uncomfortable it is, it is better for me to not suppress it. I tried it and was much worse for it.

Issie

 

[Cort]

www.openmedicinefoundation.org/2016/09/09/viruses-and-cfs-statement-by-ron-davis-and-bob-naviaux/

where does his leave the use of antivirals with me/cfs now?

i was going to start valtrex.

Well, nothing is easy in this disease that's for sure and this complicates things more.

I would say that there are a lot of hypotheses and not many answers really. Some people do well on Valtrex and some do not. Lerner did say that he could see viral titers or probably it was antibodies going down with antivirals but Naviaux makes a strong case that in the long term they or even Ampligen may be counter-productive.

A lot of people have trouble finding anything that works. If Ampligen or antivirals work then I imagine it would be really tough to get them to go off them. If they are not working Ron Davis's and Naviaux's critique would certainly make me leery of continuing. Based on what they say I would also want to be sure that a PCR test had found evidence of the virus.

Nobody one has tested to see if mitochondrial activity is depleted over time in people taking antivirals in ME/CFS.

I thought this was really interesting...

We have learned in our autism studies with Dr. Judy Van de Water that supertiters of antibodies do not mean new or reactivated viral replication. Supertiters of IgG antibodies mean that the balancing T-cell and NK cell mediated immune activity is decreased. This is a functional kind of immune deficiency that causes an unbalanced increase in antibodies.

A Complex disease just got more complex!

 

[Who Me?]

@Cort This post and one by tina are the same link. Maybe combine them to avoid confusion

 

[Cort]

@Cort This post and one by tina are the same link. Maybe combine them to avoid confusion

I used to be able to merge threads but I don't see a way to do it...I think there must be a way though - aha - just figured out how to do it. Threads merged.

Thanks

 

[Issie]

I just ran across another blog giving a little more clarification of what these researchers have found with the dysfunction. They are connecting it to issues with citric acid pathways and B vitamin pathways. I know the B vitamin pathways has to do with methylation based on reference to folate and B 12. But didn’t realize the citric acid cycle and it’s connection to Biotin.

It just may be that we correct the dysfunction of basic metabolism, the gut (where most of the immune system stems from), diet to tweak our immune system and getting down inflammation…….could we be at least made better. Hoping so!

http://www.meaction.net/2016/06/04/ron-davis-errors-metabolism/

Issie

 

[Rachel Riggs]

I've been holding onto a prescription of Valtrex for some time now while exploring other therapies first, and while feeling a bit reluctant to start it. I think at this point it's on hold indefinitely, until we know more...

 

[weyland]

However, after she started IVIG and got her immune system more in gear her next two test showed positive.

She probably just tested positive because she had someone else's borrelia antibodies in her. You can't trust serology tests after IVIG has been administered.

 

[Issie]

She probably just tested positive because she had someone else's borrelia antibodies in her. You can't trust serology tests after IVIG has been administered.

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. She is however feeling better with treatment. However, Her doc thought what I wrote.

Issie