OI: Rise in HR and rise in BP on 3min test

Gay Clarke

Active Member
I would be grateful for any pointers on this. I have always know my heart rate rose 30bpm during a simple supine to standing test but today I measured my BP as well. I was expecting it to go down but it actually went up by 27sys and 17dia, HR up 32.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I would be grateful for any pointers on this. I have always know my heart rate rose 30bpm during a simple supine to standing test but today I measured my BP as well. I was expecting it to go down but it actually went up by 27sys and 17dia, HR up 32.
And so can I! :)

If you go to this link -http://www.healthrising.org/forums/resources/dr-bells-home-orthostatic-intolerance-oi-test.212/ -
you'll find a home orthostatic intolerance test developed by Dr. Bell.

Here's a home test for POTS - rapid heart beats after standing -

http://www.healthrising.org/forums/resources/home-postural-orthostatic-tachycardia-syndrome-pots-test.89/

There's also a home test for hyocapnia

In fact it's probably best to just check out the whole Orthostatic Intolerance Resource section

http://www.healthrising.org/forums/resources/categories/orthostatic-intolerance-pots-and-dysautonomia.119/

Good luck!
 

Remy

Administrator
I would be grateful for any pointers on this. I have always know my heart rate rose 30bpm during a simple supine to standing test but today I measured my BP as well. I was expecting it to go down but it actually went up by 27sys and 17dia, HR up 32.
Hi @Gay Clarke! Welcome!

What happens as you continue to stand after rising from supine? Does your HR continue to rise or does it start dropping again?
 

Gay Clarke

Active Member
Thanks all. Plenty to read, Remy it goes down a touch after it peaks but mostly stays like that. However I have never tried more than 5 mins. I have a real problem with my hrm alarming if I stand still, eg cooking stood at the cooker, or in the supermarket if I stop to look. Stupid as it sounds, I have to slowly pace up and down till it stops.
Crouching gives instant relief 20 bpm or more in seconds.
 
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Remy

Administrator
Thanks all. Plenty to read, Remy it goes down a touch after it peaks but mostly stays like that. However I have never tried more than 5 mins. I have a real problem with my hrm alarming if I stand still, eg cooking stood at the cooker, or in the supermarket if I stop to look. Stupid as it sounds, I have to slowly pace up and down till it stops.
Crouching gives instant relief 20 bpm or more in seconds.
Sounds like me. :)

Also, what is your supine heart rate before you stand up?
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Thanks all. Plenty to read, Remy it goes down a touch after it peaks but mostly stays like that. However I have never tried more than 5 mins. I have a real problem with my hrm alarming if I stand still, eg cooking stood at the cooker, or in the supermarket if I stop to look. Stupid as it sounds, I have to slowly pace up and down till it stops.
Crouching gives instant relief 20 bpm or more in seconds.
Gay - when you're pacing you're activating the muscle pump in your legs - that is helping to push blood up into your heart. Probably many people with ME/CFS/FM prefer to pace when they stand - because when you're standing you're not activating the muscle pump as much. If you don't have a problem with blood settling into your extremities you wouldn't might not feel this need to pace.

Your heart may be racing in an attempt to pump more blood out.

I don't stand still well either.
 

Gay Clarke

Active Member
Thanks Cort. I am learning a lot here.

Remy, in the 2 tests I did today my supine heart rate was 87, rising to 115, and 82 rising to 113. When I lie down again it about 40 then settles at it's original figure.

I was quite convinced it was POTS until I checked the BP. Now I am not so sure.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
@Gay Clarke I'm clueless about this but it is something I'm going to pursue. But there are a few people here who have really odd symptoms which you wouldn't normally think was POTS but it seems to be some kind of dysautonomia. So you can't necessarily rule out that out. I think @Veet has some odd things.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Thanks Cort. I am learning a lot here.

Remy, in the 2 tests I did today my supine heart rate was 87, rising to 115, and 82 rising to 113. When I lie down again it about 40 then settles at it's original figure.

I was quite convinced it was POTS until I checked the BP. Now I am not so sure.
I'm just a laymen but I really think the boundaries can get pretty stretched with orthostatic intolerance and all sorts of combinations can show up.....That's my gut feeling.

@Issie might have some ideas on this....she has an different form of OI.
 

Gay Clarke

Active Member
I have no access to anyone medical with half a brain as far as ME is concerned Lovely people though and happy to let me tell them what what I want to try and why.

Some-one suggested I try beta-blockers and then there is Mestinon but it all takes a lot of research and digestion. Brain fog kicking in big time now lol.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
I have no access to anyone medical with half a brain as far as ME is concerned Lovely people though and happy to let me tell them what what I want to try and why.
.
Join the crowd. I have a decent NP but she's sort of limited what she can RX. That's why forums are so great. You can get so many good ideas of things to try.
 

Remy

Administrator
Thanks Cort. I am learning a lot here.

Remy, in the 2 tests I did today my supine heart rate was 87, rising to 115, and 82 rising to 113. When I lie down again it about 40 then settles at it's original figure.

I was quite convinced it was POTS until I checked the BP. Now I am not so sure.
It is POTS...POTS means your HR goes up (typically 30 bpm) when you go from supine to standing.

You don't have Orthostatic Intolerance. That's when your BP drops when you go from supine to standing. But maybe take a few more measurements just to make sure you have a nice solid trend.

You could think about tyrosine if your POTS is actually a norepinephrine deficiency/sensitivity. Or beta blockers or Mestinon. You could also try something herbal like Huperzine A which works similarly to Mestinon. Or IV saline. You actually will have quite a few options, since you have a willing and helpful, if clueless, doctor!

Here's a pretty comprehensive list on DINET.

http://forums.dinet.org/index.php?/topic/19324-the-complete-guide-to-pots-therapies/
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
I'm just a laymen but I really think the boundaries can get pretty stretched with orthostatic intolerance and all sorts of combinations can show up.....That's my gut feeling.

@Issie might have some ideas on this....she has an different form of OI.
There are so many subset forms of POTS. We can't all be treated the same either. What works for me, may not work for someone else.

I have more high blood pressure than not. It will go up with standing. There are drops, but mostly back down to normal - but that causes symptoms.

However, POTS isn't DXd on what your blood pressure does. It's based on what your pulse rate does. It is supposed to go up at least 30 points from lying. Or to 120. At my worst, mine was about 170 (that we measured) from lying to standing - no exercise required.

The different subsets have similiar but different things going on with their body.

I have abdominal and leg vein pooling. But do better with an abdominal binder and not so good with leg compression. Not only will it hike my blood pressure higher it makes my neuropathy in my legs worse.

Many POTS people do better with vasoconstriction, I don't. I use vasodilators. (That's where you have to be careful with the meds.)

Since I have more high bp I don't need extra salt. I also have very low aldosterone - again not much salt. (Usually docs would use diuretics with that. Not with POTS. We have issues getting water into our cells properly. We feel dehydrated a good bit of the time.)

With the Hyperadrenic subset of POTS, most of us have high NE levels with standing. Some so high they will check for adrenal tumors. That gives a very unsettling surge with tachycardia and anxiety feelings. But, our body is trying to get blood to our head and heart and is trying to compensate for our bodies inadequate function.

(Hope that helps.)

Issie
 
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Issie

Well-Known Member
Oh forgot to add, if it's HyperPOTS, seems many of us have MCAS and EDS. Beta blockers cause mast cells to degranulate and will make that worse.

Issie
 
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Remy

Administrator
Oh forgot to add, if it's HyoerPOTS, seems many of us have MCAS and EDS. Beta blockers cause mast cells to degranulate and will make that worse.

Issie
Not all beta blockers. Verapamil, for example, is a mast cell stabilizer.
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
According to:
https://www.drugs.com/verapamil.html
Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker. It works by relaxing the muscles of your heart and blood vessels.

However, it is thought it may have some properties that work like a beta 2 blocker.

But it is considered a calcium channel blocker. And as with GastroCrom, calcium channel blockers do seem to help mast cell issues.

Issie
 

Remy

Administrator
According to:
https://www.drugs.com/verapamil.html
Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker. It works by relaxing the muscles of your heart and blood vessels.

However, it is thought it may have some properties that work like a beta 2 blocker.

But it is considered a calcium channel blocker. And as with GastroCrom, calcium channel blockers do seem to help mast cell issues.

Issie
It's a calcium channel blocker and a beta blocker.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8095251

That's why calcium channel blockers are a better choice of beta blocker for those with mast cell issues over other classes of beta blockers.

But I have no idea if the OP has mast cell issues or not.
 

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