Sleep makes my CFS worse!!!!

[keepinghopealive]

I've noticed that if I get up after 4 hours of sleep I feel a lot more energetic and clear-headed than if I get 8 hours of sleep. It's very hard to get up after just 4 hours of sleep, but once the initial grogginess wears off, the improvement in energy level and mental clarity is remarkable.

Anyone else experience this? Any theories as to why this is?

 

[Folk]

I do!
hehe
I posted it in some other topic... I think the best for me would be sleep like 3 hours 3 times a day or something like that.
When I sleep 3 hours I wake up with a lot less pain, and I feel a lot more well rested.

I never tried to put that in practic though... I know that only based on experiences where that happen ocasionally.

 

[tatt]

nope. I need a good 8 hours.

 

[JennyJenny]

ha ha... I wish I could get 12. I hate when I am up too early, I know I am headed for a LONG day full of confusion and not getting done the things I need too. I think today is going to be like that. : (

 

[keepinghopealive]

I do!
I never tried to put that in practic though... I know that only based on experiences where that happen ocasionally.

Same here, Folk. I am considering forcing myself to sleep less, but I wonder if that is a bad idea in the long-run. If the CFS symptoms are lessened but I'm sleep-deprived, it almost seems foolish.

 

[Hari]

Mine is another strange story.

When I had to be awake entire night - let it be the family function arrangements or some urgent and important work or simply insomnia, by morning around 8 AM I feel lot more energy and can not sleep. By evening I become so weak physically and when I sleep at that time it would be only half sleep for few hours or until physical stress is reduced where body can rest.

These days after night's sleep for 8 to 10 hours, I feel refreshed. Once I start my work I feel fatigue before noon. With 1 to 2 hours of rest I feel refreshed. I am good to work until 10 PM with full productivity.

I do not know the underlying reasons for this behavior. But Noni juice along with high protein diet and multivitamins help me to progress towards normal sleeping patterns. Fasting also playing significant role towards progressing normal day to day activities by alleviating all symptoms. I believe fasting is lightening my body thus alleviating fatigue. I am yet to assess the same and any impact on the quality of sleep. Now I am experimenting with 16/8 rule fasting, so far the result is good. I had been doing 24 hour fasting (Monday Dinner to Tuesday dinner) for more than a year.

Have fun,

Hari

 

[Snookum96]

I have a similar issue. I'm tired when I get up after 4ish hours of broken sleep, but I can get up at least. Sometimes if I go back to bed at this point and take another nap I end up in bed most of the day.

However if I dont sleep enough for several days in a row I end up crashing anyways. Can't win I guess!

 

[greg hay]

Hi.
I get this also.
Hours of.5-8 are the.ones.that wreck us.
Something the immune system is doing in this.period.
Or else as cortisol rises......our system crashes.
Could be inflammatory response to cortisol ramp that happens early AM.

 

[greg hay]

If we.could know more about what body functions are performed in second half of sleep pattern we could make more sense.of this illness.
Like folk.3x3 hr sleep is great. Or even 2x4hours.
Afternoon sleeps are very refreshing for me.
Cant help think about cortisol influence on this.

 

[greg hay]

Posssibly mast cell degranulation during sleep pattern.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2014/614529/

In this instance, then mast cell stabiliser will help.
H1.H2 antogonists, luteolin, quercetin, etc, etc

 

[keepinghopealive]

Hi.
I get this also.
Hours of.5-8 are the.ones.that wreck us.
Something the immune system is doing in this.period.
Or else as cortisol rises......our system crashes.
Could be inflammatory response to cortisol ramp that happens early AM.

Hi Greg.
That's very interesting. I'm the same way, it's hours 5-8 which seem to be the problem. If I sleep soundly during those hours, I wake up feeling like a truck ran over me. Also, I've noticed that I get very cold during hours 5-8, so I need lots of extra blankets.

 

[Redclaylady]

Hi Greg.
That's very interesting. I'm the same way, it's hours 5-8 which seem to be the problem. If I sleep soundly during those hours, I wake up feeling like a truck ran over me. Also, I've noticed that I get very cold during hours 5-8, so I need lots of extra blankets.

I have at least 2 different sleep patterns. If I've had to deal with too many things during the day and didn't get enuf time to take needed rest breaks, my sleep will be short (1.5 hrs.) and sometimes deep, after which I awaken. Sometimes that gives me a total of about 4 to 6 hrs sleep per night. Some but not all awakenings correlate with bad pain breakthroughs, bad dream breakthroughs, or nothing I notice.

Nights that either follow days that have been pleasant, especially if I can get outdoors, allow for more restful sleep, often with 4 hr sleep periods rather than 1.5.

But, yes, times when for a few noticeable but different reasons I sleep very deeply and for longer periods than 4 hrs I will often feel worse next day. This is I think an important clue to one of the pathological mechanisms of ME. I've only come up with one explanation though it's grounded in no theory or research I know of. I often suspect that the reason for feeling worse after a deeper less broken up sleep might have to do with muscle tension or contraction; i.e., that the breaks on the episodic sleep nights gives you a chance to break into what might be tensing, contracting muscles and also maybe at a psychological level some safety from the control that comes from awareness of your surroundings almost to check that you're safe, which awareness is prevented by a long somnolent night. Why this would be I don't know but it does fit the hypervigilant states I believe have been mentioned as one of the many pathological symptoms that I think has been observed in us, certainly me.

Redclaylady

 

[keepinghopealive]

My thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far; it's nice to know that I'm not alone with this bizarre aspect of this disease!!

What's also interesting is how many different theories are posted here about WHY this happens. I suppose all of them can't be true, so which one is?

 

[AnneVA]

2 more possibilities to ponder. These are things my girl has had to deal with and is being treated for. If you are also dealing with POTS and/or hypovolemia, you can wake up in the morning with low blood pressure and somewhat dehydrated. The longer you sleep, the more dehydrated you become and the lower the morning blood pressure. Another thing to consider is sleep quality because of pain provoking numerous sleep arousals which prevent you from getting any deep quality sleep.

 

[greg hay]

Not low volume or blood pressure in my case.
Pre sleep is around 130/80 and bp immediately on wakening is 120/70.
Blood volume tests fine.
Never ever get pain and sleep like a baby.
Starting cortisol blockers.2nite (phosphotoserine) will see how that goes.
If thats not effective must be immune hyperactivity imho.

 

[greg hay]

Hi Greg.
That's very interesting. I'm the same way, it's hours 5-8 which seem to be the problem. If I sleep soundly during those hours, I wake up feeling like a truck ran over me. Also, I've noticed that I get very cold during hours 5-8, so I need lots of extra blankets.

As cortisol rises early.am it gives pathway for pregnenolone steal. Preg is master.hormone. I always put cfs as a hormonal driven fatigue. Prehaps its.why woman to man ratio is 80%

 

[Merida]

This is an interesting discussion. I get my best sleep between 3:00 am and 8:00 am. The position of my neck is very important - must be in just the right position. Otherwise, I get head pressure, frequent waking. Also, a hard bed makes sleep impossible. I can only sleep on my right side or back. Anyone else like this ?

These observations take me right to structure and function, again. Mitochondrial issues, food/diet issues, etc are not going to cause problems with sleep position. The pituitary is surrounded by dural membranes, so abnormal dural tension may affect pituitary function - ie wrong hormones at wrong times. Also - where does blood supply to pituitary come from?

 

[Merida]

Okay, the most important blood supply to pituitary and hypothalamus comes from the internal carotid arteries. The internal carotids are connected to the Circle of Willis, and the vertebral arteries feed the Circle of Willis. So, this seems complex, but certainly it seems possible that rotated neck vertebrae ( or dural tension) or unstable neck vertebrae may restrict blood flow to various parts of the brain especially when lying down?

 

[AnneVA]

cervical instability and Chiari malformation are 2 problems that can cause a myriad of problems. Position would play a large role in presentation of symptoms.