Verapamil?

Remy

Administrator
I just got a prescription for verapamil...anyone have any experiences to share with this beta blocker?
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
Yup, I take it. It's actually a calcium-channel blocker instead of a beta-blocker. They're generally used for the same symptoms, I was told.

I feel a lot better with it, although I need florinef plus verapamil to get a significant effect. We tried each one alone and they were kinda meh for me. The two together -- I'm a lot more functional.
 

Remy

Administrator
Yup, I take it. It's actually a calcium-channel blocker instead of a beta-blocker. They're generally used for the same symptoms, I was told.

I feel a lot better with it, although I need florinef plus verapamil to get a significant effect. We tried each one alone and they were kinda meh for me. The two together -- I'm a lot more functional.
What dose do you take? How often? Do you have low blood pressure? Help!
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
Without OI treatment, my BP is slightly high (except when it crashes :rolleyes:). Supposedly that is in compensation for the low blood volume and tachy. With florinef + verapamil, my BP is generally normal to slightly low. For me, the verapamil is not supposed to be treating the mildly high BP, but the tachy.

I'd have to go back and read more re ME and beta/calcium channel blockers to jog my memory, but I think they can raise low BP by reducing tachy...? That may need the additional blood volume, though. :confused:

I take 40mg 3x daily.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
What symptoms or tests results did you get it prescribed for? Is it for migraine or OI or something else? I see it relaxes the smooth muscles lining the blood vessels - a blood vessel dilator it sounds like.
I just got a prescription for verapamil...anyone have any experiences to share with this beta blocker?
 

Remy

Administrator
V
What symptoms or tests results did you get it prescribed for? Is it for migraine or OI or something else? I see it relaxes the smooth muscles lining the blood vessels - a blood vessel dilator it sounds like.
My heart rate overcompensates and spikes on exertion. For example, sitting here, it is about 65. But if I stand up, it would spike to the 80s. And if I start walking, it will go over 100 easily. Thankfully it calms itself down again and doesn't keep climbing but my doctor thinks I will have more stamina if it isn't at 120 walking when it should be 80-90.

Plus it helps with migraines, stabilizes mast cells and may help extinguish fear memories. I will try petting a spider and see if that is true. ;)
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
My heart rate overcompensates and spikes on exertion. For example, sitting here, it is about 65. But if I stand up, it would spike to the 80s. And if I start walking, it will go over 100 easily. Thankfully it calms itself down again and doesn't keep climbing but my doctor thinks I will have more stamina if it isn't at 120 walking when it should be 80-90.
Same here, except that mine wouldn't calm itself down in anything like a reasonable amount of time.

Plus it helps with migraines, stabilizes mast cells and may help extinguish fear memories. I will try petting a spider and see if that is true.
I didn't know that! I wonder if I've been getting mast cell benefits and didn't know it.

I think I'll pass on the spiders -- that's not a conditioned fear. I'm sure I was born with it. :D Hmmm.... what conditioned fears do I have I could test...? I wonder how it does that, by the way. It seems a long way from the mechanisms of the other conditions. Something to do with slowing down a racing heart resulting in less feeling of panic?
 

Remy

Administrator
@Remy. Can you feel your heart beating? I can, not tachy just feel it. Bp is ok.

I take propranol so I can sleep at night. Other beta blockers don't stop me feeling my heart beat

I haven't testing my Bp sitting to standing in awhile. Or did you say HR? I don't have a hr monitor.
No, I typically can't feel my heart beat even when it's pretty fast. I just tire more quickly than I should. Like faster than my elderly parents.

Yes, heart rate. I have a chest strap that pairs with Bluetooth to my iPhone.
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
Oh, and it may help reverse insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome (unlike many other types of beta blockers which can make these things worse).
Well, I have lost a LOT of weight since I've been on it. Correlation or coincidence? I'll never know. :)
 

Remy

Administrator
Verapamil can also increase the force of the left ventricle and help improve the left ventricle dysfunction that Lerner used as a biomarker.

Seriously, it sounds like a miracle so I'm sure it will be a nightmare for me. What is that negative placebo effect??
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
@Remy. Can you feel your heart beating? I can, not tachy just feel it. Bp is ok.

I take propranol so I can sleep at night. Other beta blockers don't stop me feeling my heart beat

I haven't testing my Bp sitting to standing in awhile. Or did you say HR? I don't have a hr monitor.
When I'm really tired I feel my heart beat = only then. When I first got ME/CFS I would lie down and I could hear it thump away. I used to think my heart was straining hard back then but now I think I could just really, really hear it.
 

Remy

Administrator
When I'm really tired I feel my heart beat = only then. When I first got ME/CFS I would lie down and I could hear it thump away. I used to think my heart was straining hard back then but now I think I could just really, really hear it.
I typically associate pounding heart with hypothyroidism though there are likely many causes. Mitral valve prolapse is another one in our population that can cause this.
 

IrisRV

Well-Known Member
Verapamil can also increase the force of the left ventricle and help improve the left ventricle dysfunction that Lerner used as a biomarker.

Seriously, it sounds like a miracle so I'm sure it will be a nightmare for me. What is that negative placebo effect??
Gosh, all these helpful effects from a med I innocently thought was just for tachy! It may be the combination of all those effects (plus the florinef) that have made a big difference for me -- second only to antivirals.

I'm pretty sure Lerner found left ventricle dysfunction in me, and T-wave flattening, and I don't know what else. It would be interesting to see if any of that has changed since then.
 

Remy

Administrator
More good info on verapamil...looks like it may help to restore ATP synthesis. And it's back to high intracellular levels of calcium again. They suggest that verapamil might contribute to better functioning of the Ca extrusion pumps restoring calcium homeostasis. It's worth noting that this was an in vitro study and I don't know if they ever followed up with one showing it to work this way in the body too.

Pharm Res. 1995 Apr;12(4):518-22.
Is the beneficial effect of calcium channel blockers against cyclosporine A toxicity related to a restoration of ATP synthesis?

Salducci MD1, Chauvet-Monges AM, Dussol BM, Berland YF, Crevat AD.

Abstract

ATP synthesis inhibited by Cyclosporine A is restored by calcium channel blockers: nifedipine, verapamil, bepridil, diltiazem. ATP synthesis was estimated using liver mitochondria by measuring the rate of respiration during state 3 and a measure of the yield of ATP synthesis, the P/O ratio. The study of calcium fluxes through mitochondrial membrane indicates that calcium channel blockers counteract the mitochondrial calcium storage induced by cyclosporine A. If the restoration of ATP synthesis observed in vitro also occurred in vivo, the increase in ATP pool might contribute to a better functioning of the Ca2+ extrusion pumps of the cells, thereby maintaining the cytosolic calcium concentration (Cai), in the normal range. The nephrotoxicity of cyclosporine A appears to be due to a vasoconstrictive effect related to an increased Cai. This result may account for the reduction of clinical cyclosporine A toxicity by calcium channel blockers. Verapamil appears to be the most efficient in restoring ATP synthesis.
 

Remy

Administrator
Restoration of calcium homeostasis, increased ATP, and decreased pro-inflammatory Th17 cytokines now too!

Stimulation such as foreign pathogens,enables the human lymphocytes to turn in active state of proliferation and differentiation,causes disorder of immune regulation.Ion channel blocker VERAPAMIL in vitro via direct action on peripheral blood lymphocytes,adjusts the production of Th17/Treg cytokines,the cell proliferation and differentiation.
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTotal-ZGYZ201222013.htm
 

Lissa

Well-Known Member
@Remy - any update on how you are doing on Verapamil? I just stumbled on this thread and your description of tachy matched my own experience... To a T.

Same low resting HR- high 60's low 70's. Then stand up and it jumps to 90's. Walk around and "do" things = a jump into the 100's. But luckily it usually resets a bit and goes into 80's when standing. Depending on the activity/energy (bad day) sometimes goes up into the 140's. Hot temps and humidity can drive it up even further.

Would like to hear more about your experience with the Verapamil... Is it working? Any unwanted side effects... I'd sure be happy with accidental weight loss and better A1C #'s!
 

Remy

Administrator
@Remy - any update on how you are doing on Verapamil? I just stumbled on this thread and your description of tachy matched my own experience... To a T.

Same low resting HR- high 60's low 70's. Then stand up and it jumps to 90's. Walk around and "do" things = a jump into the 100's. But luckily it usually resets a bit and goes into 80's when standing. Depending on the activity/energy (bad day) sometimes goes up into the 140's. Hot temps and humidity can drive it up even further.

Would like to hear more about your experience with the Verapamil... Is it working? Any unwanted side effects... I'd sure be happy with accidental weight loss and better A1C #'s!
I ended up having to do a month of antifungals and was nervous about taking the verapamil with diflucan since they interact.

And now I started the gastrocrom and need to just change one thing at a time.

But every time I go to the park, I notice the high heart rate and wish I'd tried the verapamil again.

So maybe I can work in another trial soon...I really think it will help if I get the dose right!

Sorry I'm not more help now. :(
 

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