Wine Substance Beats Lyrica in Fibromyalgia Study

Regarding resveratrol

  • I tried it and it produced some benefits

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • I tried and didn't notice much

    Votes: 5 17.9%
  • I tried it and it made me worse

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • I'm interested in trying it

    Votes: 17 60.7%
  • I'm not interested in trying it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Lyrica is the king of the FDA approved drugs for FM. More people with FM take it than any other drug. While it can cause some significant side-effects when it works it works pretty well. But can it beat wine as a pain reliever?

[fright]
free-radicals-II.jpg
[/fright]Many studies have shown oxidative stress is increased FM and chronic fatigue syndrome. A group of Brazilian researchers thought targeting those free radicals might be helpful and so they gave fibromyalgia mice an antioxidant and immunomodulatory preparation of two supplements; one commonly found in red wine called resveratol and rice bran oil. They then compared the effects of those supplements to mice given Lyrica and to controls.

With neuroinflammation clearly in mind, in a rather novel test they went so far as to assess free radical levels in the spinal fluid before after the treatments.

Pain Research and Treatment Volume 2016 (2016), Article ID 3191638, 11 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2016/3191638. Coadministration of Resveratrol and Rice Oil Mitigates Nociception and Oxidative State in a Mouse Fibromyalgia-Like Model http://www.hindawi.com/journals/prt/2016/3191638/

Results

The researchers found that resveratrol did reduce the pain levels and even the allodynia of the mice. They pointed out that similar studies have shown similar effects and that RSV may be able to relieve diabetic neuropathic pain as well.

Rice bran oil by itself reduced thermal hyperalgesia but not mechanical or pain induced by hot plates.

A resveratrol plus rice bran oil combination, however, was the most effective pain reducer. Besides significantly reducing pain, it was the only treatment that reduced "depression" (i.e. stopped the mice from making themselves immobile.)

The most interesting part of the study came at the end, though. Citing several sources suggesting that high rates of oxidative stress and mitochondria problems (either can cause the other) are involved in FM, the authors examined the levels of reactive oxygen species in the cerebral spinal fluid of the FM mice.

They found that pushing the mice into a fibromyalgia-like state caused the free radical levels in their spinal fluid to skyrocket - suggesting that inducing pain in the periphery (the body) can result in central nervous system inflammation and microglial activation.

Adding resveratrol and rice bran oil to the mice's diet caused the free radical levels in their CSF to plummet. In fact, at the end of the trial the free radical levels of the FM mice given the supplement combination were lower than those found in the control mice.

Lyrica also reduced the FM mice's CSF free radical levels significantly but not to the extent that the resveratrol - rice bran oil combination did. Resveratrol, in short, was more effective than Lyrica.

Resveratrol

Resveratrol, an antifungal molecule produced by plants when under attack by pathogens or when under stress, has become big news in the nutrition field. Found in red grapes, mulberry and peanuts, wines and tea it can be extracted from red wine during the fermentation process. Numerous studies - mostly done in rodents - suggest it has anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, pro-mitochondrial and even antiviral effects.

[fright]
Grapes.jpg
[/fright]Our brains are breeding grounds for oxidative stress. Producing energy aerobically - which is how the brain produces much of its energy - produces large numbers of free radicals. The brain's massive oxygen needs ensure that if oxidative stress is going to turn up anywhere it's probably going to show up in the brain. (Shungu has shown that it has in chronic fatigue syndrome patient's brains.)

All this activity can leave the neurons highly vulnerable to free radical attacks. Oxidative stress is believed, in fact, to play a significant role in many neurodegenerative diseases, and resveratrol has been touted as a possible treatment for many diseases (cancer, heart disease, etc.) including neurodegenerative diseases (multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease). It's effectiveness in neurodegenerative diseases is believed to derive from its ability to reduce the high levels of, yes, oxidative stress (inflammation) believed found in central nervous system disorders.

Interestingly, given recent findings of reduced telomere length in fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome - which are probably due, yes, to oxidative stress - resveratrol has been show to increase telomere length.

Resveratrol has also able to protect against obesity in mice and even extend their lifespan. It's shown enough promise that resveratrol based drugs are being pursued by a number of pharmaceutical companies. Resveratrol is one of the substances Jarred Younger is examining in a microglial cell inhibitor study in Gulf War Syndrome (GWS).

Bioavailability

One big question about resveratrol has been its bioavailability. Since it is rapidly metabolized into other compounds drinking lots of red wine will not raise your resveratrol levels significantly. (An interview on the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health at the NIH, stated that the amount of resveratrol used in "convincing clinical studies" (about 1 gram/day) would require drinking about 667 bottles of red wine.)

Encapsulating resveratrol in a lipid formulation does increase its bioavailability. A better way to get resveratrol into your body may be absorption through the mouth and a resveratrol chewing gum is reportedly being developed. In fact a large number of carrier formulations (polymeric nanoparticles, polymeric micelles, zein-based nanoparticles, lecithin-based nanoemulsions, cyclodextrins, liposomes, and lipid nanoparticles) are being tested.

Recently a study highlighted a lipid nanoparticle formulation which protected resveratrol from absorption early in the digestive process but allowed it to be absorbed in the intestinal tract. As the lipid nanoparticles used are biodegradable, safe, and cheap to formulate they may be able to solve the bioavailability problem.

Resveratrol, it turns out, effects basic metabolic factors that effect many cells. Given the lack of human studies, the long term effects are uncertain.

Conclusion

Mice are not humans but this FM mice model does respond similarly to drugs like Lyrica as do FM patients. Many human trials have proved Lyrica is helpful for some FM patients. The same cannot be said for resveratrol, but the laboratory and animal evidence base for resveratrol is quite large, and the resveratrol/rice bran oil combination outperformed Lyrica both with regards to pain reduction and to free radical reduction in the cerebral spinal fluid.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
It's possible I just missed it but any idea as to what a good starting dosage might be?
I'm really not sure. In an interview on the NIH's NCAAM site the researcher said that convincing clinical trials used a gram a day...I think that's quite a bit of resveratrol. Others may know better.

I also have no idea the best brands to use, either. Maybe others can help out there too.

Convincing clinical studies in humans have used about 1 gram of resveratrol per day, roughly equal to the amount found in 667 bottles of red wine.

https://nccih.nih.gov/news/multimedia/audio/resveratrol
 

lynn

New Member
I'm really not sure. In an interview on the NIH's NCAAM site the researcher said that convincing clinical trials used a gram a day...I think that's quite a bit of resveratrol. Others may know better.

I also have no idea the best brands to use, either. Maybe others can help out there too.
I am a red wine drinker but not at that level obviously. So would a few glasses of wine a night help or hinder?

Lynn
 

Issie

Well-Known Member
Just a FYI, my researching both of these supplements shows they both are copper chealators. Bringing us back to the possibility of pyroluria and the Kyrienine pathway. A possible imbalance in copper vs zinc.

Issie
 
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Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I am a red wine drinker but not at that level obviously. So would a few glasses of wine a night help or hinder?

Lynn
Based on this they wouldn't make the slightest difference in how much resveratrol actually got into your system. The problem is that resveratrol is metabolized into different substances early in the digestive process so very little of it gets into your bloodstream where it can do some good. You need something that keeps it intact until it get lower into the intestines.
 

Raba

Member
I tried pure encapsulation Reservatrol.

It was absolutely amazing. It made me so incredibly well!! This was several years ago

Then I noticed that in the second day I felt very badly. My muscles felt very weak and had sharp chest pain I think. I remember I could not go upstairs. Difficult walking etc. almost like when taking metformin. Maybe lactic acid accumulated. Just a guess.

I remember it as being one of those amazing disappointments. Made me feel incredibly well, then I could not tolerate it. I tried only twice since the later effects were scary. I felt like my bidy was shutting down.

But i have it printed in my memory that there is something very special about it.

In time I learned that forcing my mitochondria by taking supplements it only created a short term improvement and then hell to pay.

So I think my body is in its current state, as the the state of a complex system for a reason. Maybe a protective one.
 

alex3619

New Member
I have been using Resveratrol for years now. Its the last supplement I would ever want to give up.

It does not directly improve CFS or fibro symptoms, but it does have an impact on several things.

First, I get better sleep, sometimes much better, but I also sleep less. When I can manage longer sleep on Resveratrol I get less fatigue and more energy, though not by a lot.

One of the big things it does is improve my breathing issues, especially a type of reactive lung issue where I can stop breathing as I get some kind of lung spasm.

What I did for dosage was start with one tab (though you can start with much less) and increase every few days till you get a reaction or reach a maximum dose you are happy with. If you respond at a lower dose I think its better to stay at that dose, though you might want to try a slightly higher dose. After a lot of experimenting I found that 600 mg was necessarily. Less than that did nothing. It really requires some minimal dose to work. I also found the positive effects last 3-4 days, so taking it every three days is all I need to do. However I later found that if I eat wheat I might need an additional dose.

I do think very little of the Resveratrol is absorbed, but that small amount can make a big difference. However its not a miracle cure.

I stopped taking LDN to take Resveratrol using the same money.

One of the issues is that Resveratrol is not just made from wine, but also Japanese Knotweed. Many cannot take Resveratrol using that latter source.

In my own investigation I found the primary mode of action was as a phosphodiesterase-4 inhibitor. PDE4 destroys a substance called cyclic AMP, and is part of the natural process to remove excess cAMP. However many degenerative conditions are about low cAMP and high Ca++ (ionized calcium). These two are part of what is called an axis, in that they are antagonistic signals inside every living cell in our bodies. Since Resveratrol allows cAMP levels to rise, it balances an excess of ionized calcium to some extent. This balance alters the expression of a great many processes that are internal and external to the cell. That is why Resveratrol has such far reaching effects. It is however also why its a blunt instrument, though most of the side effects are beneficial unlike many other substances we take. So I try to keep the dose to the minimum that works for me.

This is no cure, but to date its the only supplement I cannot give up on.
 

Nanci H

New Member
This is no cure, but to date its the only supplement I cannot give up on.[/QUOTE]

I'm relatively new to this forum, so this may be against policy, but can you share the name of the supplement you take and where you get it. I'm pretty limited on getting around, but if it can be ordered online I would really like to try it.
 

Veet

Well-Known Member
I used resveratrol, found it helped w/ oxidative stress, until I found other antioxidants my body preferred.

For those with histamine issues, red wine resveratrol can be replaced by Japanese knotweed.
 

Raba

Member
Cort and All:
Found the products I think they could have used. below. It maybe what they used Or close. It is tempting to try it!!
Hmmmm. Any thoughts?
The
 

Raba

Member
Based on this they wouldn't make the slightest difference in how much resveratrol actually got into your system. The problem is that resveratrol is metabolized into different substances early in the digestive process so very little of it gets into your bloodstream where it can do some good. You need something that keeps it intact until it get lower into the intestines.

Cort and Everyone,
Pureencapsulations.com Appears to have both products used or similar:
What do you think?
Rice bran oil
http://www.pureencapsulations.com/tocotrienols.html

Advanced delivery reservatrol.
http://www.pureencapsulations.com/resveratrol-vesisorb-3105.html
I am so tempted to try it. Wondering on the risks...
 

Raba

Member
Hi Court,

Sent you a few responses at end of these thread if you have a moment. Got the supps on hand now.
 

San Diego

Well-Known Member
If absorption is a problem, and chewing gums are a potential delivery system, seems the best way to take it would be the swish and spit? or hold between cheek and gum like we do for B12?

Anyone tried either of those?
 

alex3619

New Member
This is no cure, but to date its the only supplement I cannot give up on.
I'm relatively new to this forum, so this may be against policy, but can you share the name of the supplement you take and where you get it. I'm pretty limited on getting around, but if it can be ordered online I would really like to try it.[/QUOTE]

The brands in Australia, at least those readily available, are often different to the US. Currently I use ethical nutrients age defence, but this also contains zinc, quercetin, betacarotene, gotu kola and is sourced from Knotweed. I first tested this using a house brand that funny enough does not have a name. I think its some other brand rebadged.
 

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