BINGO Positive Enterovirus what next?????

kevin Feldman

Active Member
All my blood labs showed nothing I just got this result back from Dr Chia. Anybody know what it means and how to treat it? How do I nuke this bug? IV pestiscide? Finally after so many dead ends and lost battles I never thought I would be so happy to find I had a polio virus but certainty trumps twilight Zone
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
OOPs here is results

TEST DESCRIPTION:Immunoperoxidase staining of thestomachtissues wasperformed according to previouslydescribed protocol.
1TEST RESULTS:StomachMH15-825CEnterovirus-specific antibody:positive (2+)(DsRNA staining by J2 antibody was positive) ColonMH15-825HEnterovirus-specific antibody:Negative(CMV-specificantibody wasNegative)
INTERPRETATION:Every pieceofthe stomach biopsy was positive for enteroviral protein indicatingactive enterovirus infection.Note: The positive and negative controls (stomach tissues) stainedappropriately.Positive samplesSensitivitySpecificityPositive predictive valueNegative predictive value
 
All my blood labs showed nothing I just got this result back from Dr Chia. Anybody know what it means and how to treat it? How do I nuke this bug? IV pestiscide? Finally after so many dead ends and lost battles I never thought I would be so happy to find I had a polio virus but certainty trumps twilight Zone
Ask Lerner, he'll find positive EBV.
Ask Pridgen, he'll find positive HSV.
And so on...
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Ask Lerner, he'll find positive EBV.
Ask Pridgen, he'll find positive HSV.
And so on...
Thanks john my other blood lab showed cytomegalo 1.6 H igg and parvo 1.44H but my understanding is that only proves i had historic exposure ike everyone but not dispositive for recent exposure..I sure it was recent as I was very immunosuppressed and subjectt to attack...can you please explain the significance of finding other actve pathogens as well at this point I am only interested in treating with something to improve condition which is pretty dire thank you for commenting
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Chia told some of his patients that he had a really big finding to announce but then failed to announce it at the Invest In ME conference. His samples are also getting tested by the CDC. It looks like there's quite a big going on with Dr. Chia right now.

He uses Equilibriant to treat enteroviruses now. There's an article on it on the Health Rising blog. You might want to check that out.
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Thanks. I am the worst I have ever been . I move like Im in a slow motion film. It's so weird and hard to explain. The Irony is I used to joke around with my wife and act sick, now I am sick .I asked her if she notices anything -she says yeah but I don't know if you are kidding around or not- I told her this is real , no fun and games. I have carpet and padding upstairs, sometimes Im down on all 4's crawling like a turtle its so strange, have to get OUT OF THIS MESS !!!!!
 

Zapped

Well-Known Member
Thanks Cort, for update on Dr. John Chia.
Re: (http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=55465)
(After abstract - to Material And Methods, referencing ME/CFS patients...)

Uh, oh! So, is it back to Valcyte and Oxymatrine...or speed up or slow down
the immune system? Dang, If I have to add one more pill to my pile... . I already feel like a Roman Candle at potty time... .

The good Dr. Chia is firing up the 'viral source' camp of ME-CFS just when I have been refocusing my views (actually morphing) them onto the Autonomic Immune System Dysfunction, ie as in Mito Disease and Cytokine activity.

Now, I'm back on the fence, though IMHO the two sources are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, Mito could easily turn out to be pursuant to the viral etiology
(if that turns out to be the, or a source of ME-CFS).

Reflux and IBS are two of my secondary trouble spots. From years of observation it appears an almost universal problem re CFS, maybe even a hallmark ID. In that regard I wonder what fellow PWCs are thinking about etiology and treatment protocols, especially after seeing Chia's work updated?

Onward, stalwart sleuthes! ...

BTW, cheers for him, given his persistence and that of his family - admirable, by any standard! I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see his name on a Nobel prize nomination.
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Thanks Cort, for update on Dr. John Chia.
Re: (http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=55465)
(After abstract - to Material And Methods, referencing ME/CFS patients...)

Uh, oh! So, is it back to Valcyte and Oxymatrine...or speed up or slow down
the immune system? Dang, If I have to add one more pill to my pile... . I already feel like a Roman Candle at potty time... .

The good Dr. Chia is firing up the 'viral source' camp of ME-CFS just when I have been refocusing my views (actually morphing) them onto the Autonomic Immune System Dysfunction, ie as in Mito Disease and Cytokine activity.

Now, I'm back on the fence, though IMHO the two sources are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, Mito could easily turn out to be pursuant to the viral etiology
(if that turns out to be the, or a source of ME-CFS).

Reflux and IBS are two of my secondary trouble spots. From years of observation it appears an almost universal problem re CFS, maybe even a hallmark ID. In that regard I wonder what fellow PWCs are thinking about etiology and treatment protocols, especially after seeing Chia's work updated?

Onward, stalwart sleuthes! ...

BTW, cheers for him, given his persistence and that of his family - admirable, by any standard! I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see his name on a Nobel prize nomination.
Thanks Cort -great study. I was Just after my colo/eno ( during which I got the biopsi sent to Dr chia and got the positive EV) my gastro Dr said I have some gastritis take these 40mg pantoprazole (protonix) I wondered what the cause was? now I see
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
All my blood labs showed nothing I just got this result back from Dr Chia. Anybody know what it means and how to treat it? How do I nuke this bug? IV pestiscide? Finally after so many dead ends and lost battles I never thought I would be so happy to find I had a polio virus but certainty trumps twilight Zone
Presently there aren't any targeted pharmaceutical antivirals for enterovirus infections. If at all possible, I'd recommend seeing Dr. Chia for treatment. He uses OTC treatments such as Equilibrant and inosine which you can try on your own, but he also combines these with pharmaceutical antivirals borrowed from other viruses that seem to sometimes have a mild positive effect. He's in the lab constantly trying to find new things that might work.
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
Ask Lerner, he'll find positive EBV.
Ask Pridgen, he'll find positive HSV.
And so on...
This is a little different. Dr. Chia's histopathology test shows direct evidence of active viral expression and persistence associated with the formation of double stranded RNA. This is a big step above using antibody tests to try to link disease with herpes antibody titers. This isn't just Dr. Chia's pet theory either, it builds on the work of many British investigators from the past.
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Thank you both...do either of you know what this means "You should get Coxsackievirus B antibody and echovirus antibody by neutralization "
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
weyland can u please
This is a little different. Dr. Chia's histopathology test shows direct evidence of active viral expression and persistence associated with the formation of double stranded RNA. This is a big step above using antibody tests to try to link disease with herpes antibody titers. This isn't just Dr. Chia's pet theory either, it builds on the work of many British investigators from the past.
Im kind of new , can u please explain this to me after all its not a textbook its my own case!! r u saying that my test showed active virus and what does double dna strand have to do with re enterovirus??
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
I understand there are 11 enteroviruses we can test for, is it important to know which one it is? I think I know when I acquired this virus..would this virus be the one that was latently reactiviated causing me to have a 60 day monster viral flu in feb-march 2014 (was just after shingles dec 18 2013..) I believe it was that nasty viral flu that tripped the me/cfs wire..I never had a flu like that in my life, coughing night and day so much my chest killed, head so filled with sinus i had to wash it out and finally 3 weeks of laryngitus which I never had in my life
Im waging war on multiple battle fronts and taking fire from every flank, and Im wounded. Enterovirus is just one of many insurgent terrorist I have to deal with as well. Did I find a target to shoot at? Im tired of fighting a 3 story blaze with my kids water pistol..does anyone know of any bazookas???
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
This is a little different. Dr. Chia's histopathology test shows direct evidence of active viral expression and persistence associated with the formation of double stranded RNA. This is a big step above using antibody tests to try to link disease with herpes antibody titers. This isn't just Dr. Chia's pet theory either, it builds on the work of many British investigators from the past.
found this in Virus 101 for dummies
Coxsackie (Group B) of Enteroviruses Infection
Coxsackie And Echoviruses

Coxsackieviruses are distinguished from other enteroviruses by their pathogenicity for suckling rather than adult mice. They are divided into 2 groups on the basis of the lesions observed in suckling mice. Group A viruses produce a diffuse myositis with acute inflammation and necrosis of fibers of voluntary muscles. Group B viruses produce focal areas of degeneration in the brain, necrosis in the skeletal muscles, and inflammatory changes in the dorsal fat pads, the pancreas and occasionally the myocardium. Typically, group A viruses produce a flaccid paralysis whilst group B viruses produce a spastic paralysis. Each of the 23 group A and 6 group B coxsackieviruses have a type specific antigen. In addition, all from group B and one from group A (A9) share a group Ag. Cross-reactivities have also been demonstrated between several group A viruses but no common group antigen has been found. (NB. coxsackie A23 was found to be identical to echovirus 9 and the A23 has been dropped and the number is unused)

The first echoviruses were accidentally discovered in human faeces, unassociated with human disease during epidemiological studies of polioviruses. The viruses were named echoviruses (enteric, cytopathic, human, orphan viruses). These viruses were picornaviruses isolated from the GI tract, produced CPE in cell cultures, did not induce detectable pathological lesions in suckling mice. Altogether, 34 viruses were assigned echovirus serotype designations but echovirus 10 and 28 were reclassified as a reovirus and a rhinovirus respectively and the numbers are now unused. Of the 32 echoviruses, 10 show haemagglutinating activity with human group O erythrocytes, the haemagglutinin is thought to be an integral part of the virus particle. There is no group echovirus Ag but heterotypic cross-reactions occur between a few pairs. At least 14 of the known viruses produce disease in rhesus and cynomolgus monkeys if inoculated intracerebrally or intraspinally. As with polioviruses, the mouth is the portal of entry of the viruses. Although a few can probably infect through the respiratory route. They are excreted in the pharynx and faeces early in the course of infection and virus may be isolated from the faeces up to several weeks after recovery. The incubation period varies between 2 - 7 days which may be followed by one of several different disease manifestations. Recovery from infection is accompanied by the development of lifelong immunity. and
2. Serological Techniques - Neutralization tests are generally the best serological tests available. However they are labour intensive and takes at least 3 days before the results are available. Antibody titres are compared in paired sera, the first collected within 5 days of onset of symptoms and the second some days later. A significant rise in titre is evidence for recent infection. Significant rise in antibody titres are rare in cardiac disease as cardiac disease is usually a late consequence of coxsackie B infection.

More recently, M-antibody capture assays have become available for various coxsackie A and B, and echovirus serotypes. However, cross-reactivity between the IgM responses to different enteroviruses, including hepatitis A virus occurs. The older the patient, the more likely such heterotypic responses will occur. Enterovirus IgM usually lasts 8 - 12 weeks but may persists longer in some patients, up to a few years. It has been suggested that such a prolonged response may indicate a persistent infection in cases of recurrent pericarditis. Approximately 30 - 40% of patients with myocarditis, 60 - 70% of patients with aseptic meningitis, and 30% of patients with postviral fatigue syndrome give positive results for coxsackie B IgM. However, 10% of normal adults will also give a positive result, perhaps having experienced a recent enterovirus infection.
3. Direct detection of viral genomes - PCR assays are becoming increasingly used for the detection and identification of enteroviruses. They are particularly useful in cases of suspected enterovirus meningitis where CSF is used.
C. Prevention
Vaccination is not available against coxsackie or echoviruses. The multiplicity of antigenic types and the usually mild manifestation of disease make the production of vaccine impractical. The only effective measures for their control are high standards of personal and community hygiene. Quarantine is not effective because of the high frequency of inapparent infections.
and
L. Postviral Fatigue Syndrome - also known as myalgic encehalomyelitis (ME), it occurs as both sporadic and epidemic cases. It is a poorly characterized illness, the cardinal feature being excess fatiguability of the skeletal muscles. Other symptoms that may be present include muscle pain, headache, inability to concentrate, paraesthesiae, impairment of short term memory and poor visual accommodation. Focal neurological signs are rare. Evidence of myopericarditis may be present occasionally. There may be a history of a nonspecific viral illness and some lymphadenopathy may be present. Routine laboratory investigations are usually normal. Recovery usually takes place within a few weeks or months but the illness may persists in some patients with periods of remission and relapse.

The aetiology is uncertain but it is thought that there is a substantial functional component as well as a viral component in many cases. ME occasionally follows confirmed virus infections such as varicella/zoster, influenza A and IM. It may follow some bacterial infections such as toxoplasma gondii and leptospira. In the majority of cases though, the initiating infection cannot be diagnosed specifically. There is now substantial evidence for a persistent enterovirus infection, particularly coxsackie B viruses in many cases of ME. Patients with ME appears to have a higher prevalence of antibodies against coxsackie B viruses than matched controls. Furthermore, coxsackie B viruses may occasionally be isolated from the faeces as well as skeletal muscle biopsies in patients with ME.

[an error occurred while processing this directive]



Enteroviruses Slide Set
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
Thank you both...do either of you know what this means "You should get Coxsackievirus B antibody and echovirus antibody by neutralization "
It's a blood test panel that looks directly for neutralizing antibodies to six Coxsackie B and five echoviruses. It's slightly complex to get because it's a test that's only offered by one commercial lab in the US. There is a more easy to obtain panel available here provided by Focus Diagnostics but it looks for antibodies bound to acute phase proteins (complement) so it's not an accurate test for chronic infections.
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Ok thank you , So the neutral... is just a form of AB test for a specificc EV , EchoV. At the end we should know which virus , is there any practical significanse to having the info?
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
weyland can u please

Im kind of new , can u please explain this to me after all its not a textbook its my own case!! r u saying that my test showed active virus and what does double dna strand have to do with re enterovirus??
Dr. Chia's test is two tests in one. The first part looks for a protein that is produced by active translation of the viral genome. Your result came back positive with more than 50% (denoted by the "2+") of the cells in the stomach tissue sample showing the presence of this viral protein. This means that those cells are hosting an active infection. The second part is looking for the presence of double stranded RNA, which your result was also positive for. This part is a bit more speculative, but there is evidence that enteroviruses can cause persistent infections by forming a double stranded RNA complex (the virus is normally only a single strand of RNA). Dr. Chia believes that this double stranded complex might allow the virus to persist without being easily degraded by the cell's innate immune system and he thinks that this persistent infection is what causes ME/CFS.
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
I understand there are 11 enteroviruses we can test for, is it important to know which one it is? I think I know when I acquired this virus..would this virus be the one that was latently reactiviated causing me to have a 60 day monster viral flu in feb-march 2014 (was just after shingles dec 18 2013..) I believe it was that nasty viral flu that tripped the me/cfs wire..I never had a flu like that in my life, coughing night and day so much my chest killed, head so filled with sinus i had to wash it out and finally 3 weeks of laryngitus which I never had in my life
Im waging war on multiple battle fronts and taking fire from every flank, and Im wounded. Enterovirus is just one of many insurgent terrorist I have to deal with as well. Did I find a target to shoot at? Im tired of fighting a 3 story blaze with my kids water pistol..does anyone know of any bazookas???
It's not hugely important, no. The available treatment is the same regardless, which unfortunately is limited at this time.

If you had an illness with upper respiratory and GI symptoms, that was likely an enterovirus. It's actually not that rare for enterovirus infections to trigger shingles. Dr. Chia has found this. Enterovirus infections cause a temporary depletion of CD8 T cells which he believes allows the varicella-zoster virus to temporarily reactivate and cause shingles. 1

If I were you, and if you're well enough to travel to see him, I'd try to go see Dr. Chia. You can try Equilibrant on your own as it's OTC.
 

weyland

Well-Known Member
Ok thank you , So the neutral... is just a form of AB test for a specificc EV , EchoV. At the end we should know which virus , is there any practical significanse to having the info?
Yes, just a test that looks at levels of long term antibodies against Coxsackie B1 through B6 and echovirus 6, 7, 9, 11, and 30. It can be helpful just to confirm the diagnosis, but it doesn't change the treatment plan at all.
 

kevin Feldman

Active Member
Thank you so much you made this so clear may I ask you one thing...is the echovirus 30 the same as an enterovirus coxsacckie b? reason I ask is I think I traced this back to the exact virus that got me ill send you a link
CASE REPORT Open Access An approach for differentiating echovirus 30 and Japanese encephalitis virus infections in acute meningitis/encephalitis: a retrospective study of 103 cases in Vietnam Yuki Takamatsu1,2, Leo Uchida1,2, Phan Thi Nga3, Kenta Okamoto1, Takeshi Nabeshima1, Dang Thi Thu Thao3, Do Thien Hai4, Nguyen Thi Tuyet5, Hoang Minh Duc6, Le Xuan Luat1,2, Futoshi Hasebe1 and Kouichi Morita1* Abstract Background: In recent decades, Echovirus 30 (E30) and Japanese encephalitis virus (JEV) have been reported to be the common causative agents of acute meningitis among patients in South East Asia. An E30 outbreak in Vietnam in 2001–2002 gained our interest because the initial clinical diagnosis of infected patients was due to JEV
reference link: Takamatsu et al. Virology Journal 2013, 10:280 http://www.virologyj.com/content/10/1/280
 

Forum Tips

Support Our Work

DO IT MONTHLY

HEALTH RISING IS NOT A 501 (c) 3 NON-PROFIT

Shopping on Amazon.com For HR

Latest Resources

Top