CFS why ?

Since all these theorys flying about what cause CFS , i thought i throw one more on the long line.


I would call the condition CFS as the collapse of extracellular matrix(ECM ) The events that cause the collapse of ECM, is because our environment has changed so much from the time ancestors lived, and our body are just not made to this new deal where our bodys are bombarded more and more toxins and same time food nutrional values have drop down also.


Since the ECM is whole body system, and interacts between cells , transport all kinds of things and messages etc it have so wide range of effects also when it start go down/clogged. I think the variations that can result from just this one malfunctionin body component are just too many, from one individuals to another as people are also different and can produce different biological markers .What i mean , is that while there are known similarities observed with bio markers between CFS patients, the root cause has been not really claimed to been find, even with all registered bio markers out there . I am not claiming ECM collapse as the ultimate cause, yet it is the furthest point i have gone in this , and i been wondering this for years. Yet by looking all the different variations, bio markers that is finded every year is like needle in a haystack, at least i am tired to even read them much as the storys are missing on what reason body makes them.


With the ECM collapse, i really doubt that by looking just a virus as the cause for CFS is the answer . What set`s the whole immune system on and off against outsider pathogens, or set the immune system to down or up, to autoimmunity or lowered state is to me closer the root than a virus ,was it EBV or other. A common virus like EBV probably need weak host to start cause permanent chronic disease. With ECM collapse , we are not anymore in the normal immune system gategory, things have got compromised , and so it`s more like a waiting game when some bug start causing more issues ,CFS or other.


It`s bit hard to go very technical about the extracellular matrix here, what all it do and what impact it has to body when it is clogged/collapsed, i link some to getting at least some wiew hopefully, with search engines there is more info also.







I think the German biological medicine is on correct path with understanding the nature how our body work . The whole issue is " systemic " big time, and can then also create very wide range of different diseases, bio markers , symptoms . The ECM itself consist different materials, also fluids. If i have understand right from quite technical texts, oxygen is one of the things that should be transported also in ECM . And as we know, PEM is common feature in CFS , so does that have to do maybe with the lack of oxygen if ECM is clogged and cant keep up with the demand of oxygen , at least a maybe i think ,until knowing better.


I have CFS, thought i feel it is getting better , i will continue a clean way, do detox and wash my teeth .


Added 2 links about extracellular fluid and oxygen transport:




And a video about Interstitial Fluid , which is part of the extracellular matrix :



So IF ? someone would have some serious issues with extracellular matrix, Interstitial Fluid , the mechanism that carry nutrients to cells and visa versa toxic waste to blood out from extracellular matrix would be compromised .

I forget to add one importante article by dr.Sarah Carnes, ND . :


"
What aluminum does in the body
There are too many negative health effects of aluminum to go into detail about them all. I'm going to go into detail about the most significant and common effect that I see clinically: the collapse of the extracellular matrix. To clarify that this is by no means the only problem, here's a short and sort of technical list of some of the other known effects:
A disordered immune response including autoimmunity and inflammation, frank neurotoxicity by stimulation of inflammatory and pro-apoptotic genes (activation of which has been observed in the brains of Alzheimer's patients), loss of cellular membrane fluidity, inhibition of enzymes across the body (hexokinase - which is involved in ATP/energy production, alkaline phosphatase, acetylcholinesterase, ferroxidase, and catechol-O-methyltransferase [COMT, of methylation genetics fame) are a few), increased oxidative stress, suppressed neural development, inhibition of neurotransmitter uptake (choline, serotonin, noradrenalin, and others), inhibition of RNA synthesis, and direct binding to phosphate groups in DNA, RNA, and mononucleotides.
Collapse of the extracellular matrix (ECM)
This is a key mechanism of aluminum toxicity and even if you've never heard the term "extracellular matrix" (maybe especially if you've never hear the term), it's worth understanding why this is a problem. This is a long explanation, but it's worth it, if you want to understand for yourself, clearly and simply, why this is a real problem. There are a number of underlying concepts that, when understood and tied together at the end, show a simple and clear picture of how and why aluminum is so toxic.

Tl;dr (too long; didn't read) version: you'll just have to trust my word instead of seeing it yourself: cells can't get what they need, lose communication with the other cells and the body as a whole, and that makes them more and more sick.
The extracellular matrix surrounds every cell in the body (which is why it has the name that it does: "extra": outside; "cellular": of the cell; the matrix outside of the cell—all cells!), controlling their interaction with other cells and parts of the body near and far, controlling the entry and exit of nutrients and waste products, whether or not nearby circulation is open or choked off, whether accurate and appropriate signals from the nervous system can reach the cells, etc.

A healthy ECM is constantly restructuring itself to accommodate the changing needs of cells based on circadian rhythms, larger hormonal cycles, activities different parts of the body are doing: digesting, running, weight lifting, etc.), how long ago food was eaten, etc. Cells are dependent on the ECM functioning well, so anything that disrupts it in a significant way becomes central to health. You could think of the ECM as a wet dish sponge, with the cells of body living in the holes. If that sponge was dried out or damaged, it makes sense that cells wouldn't be as easily able to get nourishment or other things that they need.

The ECM is a combination of 1) structural proteins (collagen and hyaluronic acid are some of the better known ones) that act and look like a cross between architectural scaffolding or bottle brushes and radio antennas, and 2) the fluid surrounding them (water with varied electrolytes, proteins, and other tiny molecules, which have a certain electric charge) which keeps the scaffolding/antennas upright and in a working position.
The structural proteins (generically called glycoproteins) are like seaweed. When seaweed is underwater, it's upright, moving, fanning, colorful, etc., but at low tide, when it's above water, it's collapsed into a goo ball on the rocks, and if you didn't know better, you would assume it was dead. In a sense it is, because many of the processes required for seaweed to survive can only happen when its structure is expanded. The inside of a human body is always "underwater". There's never a time, like low tide for seaweed, that the matrix should be collapsed, yet it can happen.

The presence of the fluid, along with its proper mildly positive electrical charge, is what keeps the scaffolding, which has a mild negative charge, upright and fanning. As an example to make the point: dehydration and electrolyte imbalances can both cause collapse of the ECM, more severely, the more severe the dehydration or imbalance is.

This can be seen visually by the pinch test, a quick means to determine whether someone has dehydration (though the test doesn't work for anything less than severe, life-threatening dehydration): pinch the patient's skin, release it, and it should bounce back to its normal position immediately. If it is delayed or doesn't bounce back, that's the ECM equivalent to a pile of seaweed salad on a plate that you can mold into a certain shape and all it will do is sit there, whereas if you stuck your hand in an aquarium and balled up living seaweed, once you let go of it, it would immediately resume its flexible, fanned-out shape.
Aluminum ions also collapse the structure. Some of the aluminum that we are concerned about has a 3+ charge. "3+" is chemistry terminology for how electrically strong or weak a charged particle is (neutral is 0), and therefore how strongly it will attract or repel other charged particles.
Size of the particle also matters, because whatever charge(s) a molecule has, simplified, is spread over the surface of that molecule, so smaller particles, since the charge is concentrated in a smaller area, will have a stronger attractive/repulsive force. Al3+ (chemistry shorthand for aluminum with a 3+ charge) is a particularly small ion (its atomic number/the number of protons it has, which indicates its size, is 13; by comparison, lead is 82, mercury is 80), and 3+ is a strong charge for an ion.

When these Al3+ particles are thrown into the ECM, they completely override the milder positive charge of the diffuse ambient fluid, draw the negatively charged structural proteins to them, and hang on tightly, collapsing them like seaweed drying on the shore, and keeping them in that collapsed state until the aluminum is removed, if it ever is.
What happens to the cells when the ECM has collapsed?
The cells, surrounded by a collapsed network of glycoprotein goo instead of the adaptable, flexible, moving matrix, are physically and electrically gummed up and all tasks become less efficient and less accurate. Further, since the ECM also controls the routes of nutrients in and waste products out, fundamental needs for survival become limited.

As an example: imagine that you cannot, for any reason, leave your house. Even though you can't leave, there's someone who delivers food to your house regularly and a garbage truck and the plumbing take away your waste. Now imagine, Sleeping Beauty style, that huge thorn bushes have grown up all around your house. The food deliverer sometimes can't get in at all, and when he can make it through the thorns, he might have dropped half of the food on the way. The garbage truck driver has basically given up getting his truck anywhere close and trash is piling up, and the roots have broken through the plumbing.

At the same time that trash and poop is building up in your house, you're starting to starve. All kinds of problems are going to arise, eventually leading to death. If this "person in the house" is a liver cell, the body will not detox as well. If it's a neuron, there is going to be some abnormal neurological activity (too much: seizures, twitches, pain, excessive sensitivities to stimuli, etc.; or not enough: numbness, paralysis, brain fog, etc.). If it's a muscle cell, it will be weak and fatigue easily. Whatever that cell is supposed to do, it will not do it effectively.

Organs or cells that were already weak due to some past trauma, infection, psychological issue, etc. are going to struggle more and fail faster than those that had a full reserve of health to begin with, which in part explains why individuals will have different systems affected and different types of symptoms from the same pathology of the ECM being clogged due to aluminum toxicity.

The ECM transmits electricity and other energies as well. There is some evidence that the energy of the meridians, as recognized in Chinese and other forms of medicine, is transmitted through the ECM. While there are other reasons as well, I have observed that patients with collapsed ECM's tend to not respond to acupuncture, homeopathy, and other forms of medicine that manipulate the bodily energy at that level.

A collapsed ECM makes someone poor at grounding, no matter how much they stand barefoot outside, because the electrical signal, wherever it enters the body, faces a lot of electrical resistance, and this can cause some of the localized symptoms of electrohypersensitivity, like headaches or other symptoms in specific areas of the body, often including those parts that are closest to WiFi routers, cell phones, baby monitors, etc. Further, aluminum coating the cells makes a person an antenna, like old school television rabbit ears, boosted with fans of aluminum foil. In my clinical experience, in some cases, the main cause of electrohypersensitivity is an ECM having lost its conductance.
Perspective on the problem
After all of these words about how bad aluminum toxicity is, I need to clarify that aluminum is not some inherently evil substance, worthy of demonization. It's a natural component of the earth, presumably a key component (because everything in the natural world is a product of something else and contributes to the production or creation of something else, ad infinitum), even if we don't understand exactly why. Aluminum oxide, crystallized, is corundum, the class of minerals that includes rubies, sapphires, and rarer gems. Biological life did not evolve with the massive amounts and unnatural types of aluminum and other metals in our environment. Our systems are not adept at dealing with it, because until a few generations ago, they never had to. It's a new insult and, to anthropomorphize a bit, it's not the aluminum's fault that humans dug it out of the earth and transformed it into a poison.



 
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Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
I have observed that patients with collapsed ECM's tend to not respond to acupuncture, homeopathy, and other forms of medicine that manipulate the bodily energy at that level.
Well it's certainly true that I don't respond to either homeopathy or acupuncture well. But "other forms of medicine that manipulate the bodily energy at that level" is a very vague concept. Reiki makes me feel good as it probably does for everyone. Sunshine makes me feel good. Both of these manipulate body energy.

I'm not sure I understood everything you wrote, but the gist I got was that this is similar to what people say about leaky gut. I tried for years to explain that I felt poisoned after I ate. And it turned out to be Celiac Disease, which causes leaky gut and that interferes with a lot of interstitial communication. I think any illness would cause "ECM" at varying levels of severity.

The current medical explanation in the US, according to the medical coding system is "post viral fatigue" meaning, we don't know what caused it but you had a virus and your body never recovered fully after fighting it. I'm fairly comfortable with that explanation. And a virus would also disrupt ECM.

While I agree that aluminum is a problem, I'm not sure I prefer the explanation of aluminum toxicity to the post viral fatigue explanation. However, on an individual basis, aluminum tox could be a better explanation (case by case basis).
 
I also happen to had very very stong reactions to homeopathy and acupuncture, in to point where is even decided to back of from them ,untill later tryed to again without profound relief. Reiki was allways good for me, i just could not stay with it from other reasons.

It`s no wonder if it is confusing to read my text. Leaky gut itself is devastating problem , as is leaky blood brain barrier.

The so called medical hypothesis, like post viral fatigue does not satisfy me alone if it does not go in to details why for example very common virus like EBV would pass body immuno system in some group and in other group would not. I believe human immuno system is the most powerful system there is, more powerfull than any drugs etc...when it is working.

So as to just trying to draw a hypothesis why or what is the "thing" that could compromise our human immuno system so drasticaly that some common bugs can decimate our health . So i am not denying for example that EBV is directly effecting CFS progress per se, but that there must be underlying immuno system malfunction that has made possible this whole EBV or any other big scenario issue/mess possible in the first place, and that "issue" is what i write in this topic, the ECM issue.

The lymphatic system, that is in connection with ECM , is important part of the immuno system itself.





Maybe dr.Carnes mean by that " other forms of medicine that manipulate the bodily energy at that level. " was in the level of electrical level .

About 90 percent of people are infected at some time in their lives with Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), usually with no ill effects .
 

Carl#1

Member
I agree with your thoughts on Viruses not being the cause of CFS because they are not and they merely take advantage of the resulting immune dysfunction. The immune system is not capable of keeping chronic virus infections in check because of the immune dysfunction. This happens because of altered cytokine expression which alters the immune response. Cordyceps mushroom and a number of other things like EGCG (Green Tea) can also be helpful.

@Not dead yet! is on the right lines but I do dislike the term "Leaky Gut" because it is very misleading. I worked out the cause of CFS 6 years ago in January 2014 and have made some progress in defeating the infection(s) which cause my CFS. These infect one specific location and cause Increased Digestive Permeability in two different locations in the digestive system, the secondary location being the Transverse Colon. That dramatically increased permeability allows highly inflammatory LPS from gram negative bacteria cell walls to enter the bloodstream. The primary location where the infection(s) reside also allows incorrectly digested food molecules to enter the bloodstream which provoke an immune response and antibody production. These antibodies then affect locations in the body where the immune system control is poor because of nervous system degradation. The autonomic nervous system has a regulating effect on the immune response but nervous system degradation weakens the immune system control and can lead to autoimmunity and cancer. IDP plays a big part in these two conditions.

Today I received back my Ultrasonic Cleaner after being repaired and I am currently testing it. I intend using it to produce various liposomal products to fight the bacteria/yeast/fungi responsible. I also have suspected Lyme to treat with Liposomal essential oils of which I have all the better ones most effective against Lyme bacteria including garlic eo. I intend to be free of CFS for the first time in 27 long years and Lyme for 3 years. Lyme has been by far the worst because my previous methods of controlling CFS has been far less effective.
 
Yes Carl absolutely it`s all about immune dysfunction/dysregulation ,and after that happens it get`s messy.

Did you know that silica is needed for making collagen, and that we live now the age of aluminium that act against silica. Silica is also mostly out from most food todays. Collagen is the things that is very important to help repair Increased Digestive Permeability ,yes the better term of it. LPS are real issue, have you used Enterosgel, becouse it adsorbes selectively lipopolysaccharides


For lyme , there is a this one interesting coctail , Sardinian Cistus Incanus & whole leaf stevia extract


Getting that Sardinian Cistus Incanus has been on my list for weeks if not months now, i allready use whole leaf stevia, and take it everyday with morning coffee, so sweet stuff . One of the benefits i noticed from the whole leaf stevia extract that it has pretty much healed my gum issues, gingivitis /pain. It seems to clear the bacterias from gum areas, huge benefit form such cheap and simple extract.


The thing that i learned from silica supplements were that , normal silica products did not help , like bambuu based . Biosil did start helping ,but even better has been https://www.orgonosilica.com/en/ . Silica is needed in both intracellural and extracellural body , so i can imagine how difficult for body it must be trying to heal instestinals if same time silica would be needed for extracellural collagen production also.
 
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Carl#1

Member
Yes Carl absolutely it`s all about immune dysfunction/dysregulation ,and after that happens it getty messy.

Did you know that silica is needed for making collagen, and that we live now the age of aluminium that act against silica. Silica is also mostly out from most food todays. Collagen is the things that is very important to help repair Increased Digestive Permeability ,yes the better term of it. LPS are real issue, have you used Enterosgel, becouse it adsorbes selectively lipopolysaccharides
I have not used Enterosgel. I have been using Boswellia Serata (Frankincense) because it binds to LPS in the bloodstream rendering it unable to promote inflammation. It has worked well for me for my shoulder which was getting painful limiting movement.

https://www.enterosgel.hu/sites/default/files/tanulmanyok/khovanov-enterosgel-colombia-lecture.pdf

For lyme , there is a this one interesting coctail , Sardinian Cistus Incanus & whole leaf stevia extract

https://klinghardtinstitute.com/articles/sardinian-cistus-incanus/

Getting that Sardinian Cistus Incanus has been on my list for weeks if not months now, i allready use whole leaf stevia, and take it everyday with morning coffee, so sweet stuff . One of the benefits i noticed from the whole leaf stevia extract that it has pretty much healed my gum issues, gingivitis /pain. It seems to clear the bacterias from gum areas, huge benefit form such cheap and simple extract.
I do have some Stevia but I got the wrong type. I should of got some whole leaf rather than the extract which is used for sweetening. It is extremely sweet, I am not very sweet toothed. Cistus Incanus I did look for on eBay because I do have an email from eBay about it after doing a search.

The thing that i learned from silica supplements were that , normal silica products did not help , like bambuu based . Biosil did start helping ,but even better has been https://www.orgonosilica.com/en/ . Silica is needed in both intracellural and extracellural body , so i can imagine how difficult for body it must be trying to heal instestinals if same time silica would be needed for extracellural collagen production also.
It won't help because the cause of the IDP is an infection protected by a biofilm. Only destroying the infection will allow the digestive system to heal and eliminate the high permeability. That will eliminate the reactions to foods and all the immune system problems. I have eliminated the biofilm successfully but so far I have not destroyed the infection causing my CFS which maintains the high permeability. I did destroy 2/3rds of one of the other infections using reduced Colloidal Silver and that fell without first eliminating the biofilm which I should of done. It did teach me indicative signs to pay attention to so it was not a total waste. It did allow the remaining bacteria to develop resistance to colloidal silver. That is what biofilms do very well.

I do have some Chinese herbs which are effective against many different microorganisms including bacteria, yeast, fungi and even some viruses. The thing I wanted was an Efflux Pump Inhibitor for ABC efflux pumps. I do have one called Reserpine (Rauwolfia serpentina) which should work against most microorganisms but I am reluctant to use it because of the side effects including bradycardia (reduced heart rate), my pulse is only around 50-55 bpm, depression which can be very long lasting because of it's effects on neurotransmitters and lowered blood pressure.
 

Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
Yes I agree the disease process is only partly explained by the EBV/CMV lingering effects. There was a woman with a blog a while back, it might still be there... that drew a connection between CFS and AIDS, and also Post Gulf War Syndrome. Here she is: https://cfsstraighttalk.blogspot.com/

She seemed to have stopped blogging, but her perspective is interesting. At this point I'm not ruling out any causes.

While we're talking about biofilms... there's a book by Dr. Horowitz that I find helpful, it's broadly about Lyme but has a big section on biofilm reduction. http://www.cangetbetter.com/medical-center

I didn't know Boswellia is Frankincense, cool.
 
Well, after some feeling that i am missing a key terminology word here , i would now add the word in to this whole thingy. Immunotoxicity. With adding that word it's more near as the whole enchilada now.

The IDP & LPS that Carl talked is example immunotoxic effect, and very much the core thing , we do have just way too many toxic substances around us, some are vigorously injected to litle babys after born, continuing after that many years .


What comes first and after fom immunotoxicity ? With first i gues it is still without the ECM form, which may take some time to form. Body do reacts about instantly to substances/materials it interpret as foreign and possible threat.

So as to answer to question what cause CFS with only one word in use, it is immunotoxicity. Lack of proper nutrient levels with immunotoxicity is a recipe for constant misery, fatigue , brain fog , infections , CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME etc.
 
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Another Piece Of The Puzzle

Ever hear the term ASIA ? It means Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants

Some of the theorys about CFS is that it is an autoimmunity condition, and i have no trouble with that.


On some other thread i allready mentioned adjuvants, i dont remember where. Well ASIA is related to what adjuvants can cause, and again aluminium is pop up with this .

What is ASIA?



And as i probably have been allready saying, aluminium is now days everywhere, meaning even if someone would not even take vaccines, he or she would get aluminium still from enviromental sources or medicine drugs etc.


Chronic stimulation of the immune system by substances which may react as adjuvants may cause symptoms like : fatigue, arthritis, myalgia, and neurological manifestations . Ring any bells `?


Another major problem with M.E patients but also CFS too, the lymphatic system is very important for body detoxification. And so ,if we take a severe M.E patient here who is mostly bed bound, it means the lymphatic system is not stimulated by exercise. Lymphatic system dont have it`s own "pump" like heart is for the blood circulation . And environment push even more and more aluminium and other toxic substances to us by Year, this means it would need quite drastic maneuvers to change the levels to at least down to some degree.

So the situation itself with severe M.E together with aluminium adjuvants in body look`s pretty much hard to resolve if thinking about detoxification . Except, maybe if would use inversion , silica , glutathione , magnesium malate , i also belie in " water cure " meaning that hydration is very important for immune system, water gives the fluid to lymphatic system also & electrolytes.


That https://cfsstraighttalk.blogspot.com/ is interesting, i been reading it earlyer and also wondered why she stopped blogging .


Immunotoxicity, adjuvants , pesticides ....is it really hard to believe our bodys would go haywire with all that crap .
 

Larry

Member
AS a fully recovered person, you are onto something, but let me fill in the blank for you.

The human body is an electrical circuit. Fascia can withstand forces that almost defy physics. ITs electrical charge that is the dominant force regulating not only fascia, but there rest of us as well.

So, what is the single largest driver of electrical current in our body aside of sun and water? Emotions. Emotions are literally an electrical current. This is how our bodies are regulated. We dont eat because we are hungry, we eat because our hunger creates an electrical signal that is felt as an emotion. A lack of emotional expression equals lack of electrical current which equals a lack a poor health status.
 

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