Glyphosate - why so little research?

LondonPots

Active Member
The more I read about glyphosate herbicide, the more I am convinced it may well be the cause of my illness. Yet I see no ME/CFS research related to it. Isn't this a little strange, a little too obvious to miss?
  • its effects on the body sound just like my experience of ME/CFS and the results of recent research
  • our gut bacteria may be badly affected by it
  • maximum levels allowed keep being revised upwards (so ever more splashed around)
  • at levels way below regulatory levels it can be an endocrine disruptor
  • councils in UK spray it around like rosewater so it's very hard to avoid
  • it could easily explain random ME/CFS outbreaks in the past
I'm going back to full-on organic (which had slipped completely lately), using Epsom Salts to boost my sulphates until the sun returns, returning to kefir and bone broth, dosing with manganese and l-tryptophan and trying to avoid anywhere that might have been sprayed lately. I just hope my water filter gets rid of some of it, because otherwise there's just no way to avoid it.

The Health Dangers of Roundup (glyphosate) Herbicide. Jeffrey Smith & Stephanie Seneff
It was "supposed" to be harmless to humans and animals—the perfect weed killer. Now a groundbreaking article just published in the journal Entropy points to Monsanto's Roundup herbicide, and more specifically its active ingredient glyphosate, as devastating—possibly "the most important factor in the development of multiple chronic diseases and conditions that have become prevalent in Westernized societies."
That's right. The herbicide sprayed on most of the world's genetically engineered crops—and which gets soaked into the food portion—is now linked to "autism ... gastrointestinal issues such as inflammatory bowel disease, chronic diarrhea, colitis and Crohn's disease, obesity, cardiovascular disease, depression, cancer, cachexia, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, and ALS, among others."
Enjoy this videotaped guided tour of Jeffrey Smith interviewing co-author Stephanie Seneff, PhD, a Senior Research Scientist at MIT.

Keep glyphosate out of our bread
http://www.soilassociation.org/ourcampaigns/glyphosate/ourcampaignonglyphosate
There is a growing body of evidence indicating that glyphosate is harmful to humans even at very low levels. Data from the Defra Expert Committee on Pesticide Residues in Food shows glyphosate is appearing more frequently in our bread.
We are calling for a UK ban on the use of glyphosate sprayed on UK wheat as a pre-harvest weedkiller and its use to kill the crop to ripen it faster.

Damaging alterations in gene function
http://www.theecologist.org/campaigning/2985214/keep_glyphosate_out_of_our_food.html - references the paper below:
The first paper 'Transcriptome analysis reflects rat liver and kidney damage following chronic ultra-low dose Roundup exposure' (2015 Environ Health, 2015 Aug 25; 14(1): 70. doi: 10.1186/s12940-015-0056-1) concludes:
"A distinct and consistent alteration in the pattern of gene expression was found in both the liver and kidneys of the Roundup treatment group ... these alterations in gene function were consistent with fibrosis (scarring), necrosis (areas of dead tissue), phospholipidosis (disturbed fat metabolism) and damage to mitochondria (the centres of respiration in cells." [Note: Roundup is Monsanto's proprietary glyphosate herbicide product.]
Over 4,000 genes were affected in the Roundup treatment group, with either increased or decreased activity (expression). The glyphosate equivalent dose of Roundup administered in this study is what may be found in drinking water (the levels investigated were half that permitted in drinking water in the European Union).
Moreover the amount of glyphosate-equivalent Roundup consumed by the research animals on a daily basis was many thousands of times below the regulatory set safety limits of glyphosate alone.

Is glyphosate ‘probably’ dangerous below current regulatory limits?
http://www.soilassociation.org/ourcampaigns/glyphosate/faq/yourquestion/articleid/8519/is-glyphosate-probably-dangerous-below-current-regulatory-limits
Low levels of glyphosate may indeed be dangerous, and indeed – there may be no safe level. Pesticide industry representatives have tried to ignore this. They have implied that, as IARC only evaluates hazards not the risks associated with exposure, their conclusion only applies to extreme levels well above current regulatory limits (see for example the response of the UK Crop Protection Agency). But IARC has identified a totally new hazard – carcinogenicity – and this therefore raises new questions about what level is safe; both the EU and US risk assessments were done before this new hazard was found. Furthermore, this claim ignores the fact that the studies that led IARC to this conclusion included low levels of glyphosate exposure, and secondly, that there has been mounting evidence that glyphosate is an endocrine disruptor meaning no level may be safe. Thirdly, new peer-reviewed research (published since the IARC did their work) has found that ultra-low levels of glyphosate based herbicides, far below regulatory levels, can have toxic effects when consumed by laboratory animals long-term, see the section on Glyphosate residues in food below.
 
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Merry

Well-Known Member
Hello, @Penelope Else. The Environmental Working Group has just published an article, "Americans at Greater Risk of Glyphosate than Europeans," that you might find interesting.

http://www.ewg.org/agmag/2016/02/americans-greater-risk-glyphosate-exposure-europeans

I, too, have wondered why more research hasn't been done on the possible link between chronic illnesses such as ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia and exposure to pesticides, herbicides, and other chemicals. Maybe we'll eventually see some benefit from Gulf War Illness research.

The Countess of Mar, I've read, says her ME/CFS was caused by exposure to pesticide (sheep dip). One of my ME/CFS friends and several members of her family became ill after moving into a new house that had been sprayed inside with a pesticide approved for exterior use only, and it had been applied at a level many times the legal limit. The pesticide, which I believe she said was chlordane, has since been banned in the US.

Although I can't say what caused my poor health, all through my childhood I was exposed to agricultural chemicals on an ongoing basis: my family's source of water was a shallow well at the edge of a field.
 

Per

New Member
Like you, I cannot understand why more research hasn't been conducted on a link between ME/CFS and Roundup. Who among us patients wouldn't describe our symptoms as feeling like we've been systematically poisoned? Are eating 'healthier' foods working against us?

Published by the U.S. National Library of Medicine at the N.I.H., here are some excerpts from the research paper "Major Pesticides Are More Toxic to Human Cells Than Their Declared Active Principles" - University of Caen, Institute of Biology (2014). Roundup is cited 33 times in this study......

"Despite its relatively benign reputation, Roundup was among the most toxic herbicides and insecticides tested. Most importantly, 8 formulations out of 9 were up to one thousand times more toxic than their active principles".

"We also study here short exposures (24 h), but we have previously demonstrated a time-amplifying effect: the differential toxicity between the AP glyphosate and Roundup is increased by 5 times in 72 hours. It appears that, with cell lines and short exposures, we underestimate by far the direct toxicity of the products in the long term".

"It is commonly believed that Roundup is among the safest pesticides. This idea is spread by manufacturers, mostly in the reviews they promote, which are often cited in toxicological evaluations of glyphosate-based herbicides. However, Roundup was found in this experiment to be 125 times more toxic than glyphosate. Moreover, despite its reputation, Roundup was by far the most toxic among the herbicides and insecticides tested. This inconsistency between scientific fact and industrial claim may be attributed to huge economic interests, which have been found to falsify health risk assessments and delay health policy decisions".

The full study, which was posted by US National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health and can be read here in full.......
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3955666/

This needs to be taken more seriously. Roundup is marketed worldwide and as I understand it, it's used on 96% of the world's crops. It was first brought to market in 1974. Coincidence? I think not.

We need the link between ME/CFS and Roundup studied!!!
 
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Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
My suspicion would be that the research exists, but it hasn't been published to avoid the revelation of harm. Same research behavior, different day. I've also noticed that some "natural food" stores are now including "sustainably farmed" produce in place of the space they used to reserve for Organic. Ditto for meat production, "grass fed" which really means grass fed and corn finished is replacing organic. It forces me into the position of either finding a local farmer (which is a hassle, but I don't mind much), or sticking with the "Smart Chicken" which I can at least say is definitely organic.

.... became ill after moving into a new house that had been sprayed inside with a pesticide approved for exterior use only,
That's a very interesting observation. I also got much sicker after we had a remediation team in here because a plumbing pipe burst and soaked two rooms downstairs. They sprayed something to "prevent mold" and I had to move out for 2 weeks, couldn't even breathe for 1 min without coughing/sneezing.

Although I'm of the opinion we're looking at a virus, and it's just a matter of time before someone says "hey, that cytokine thing... yeah that's a retrovirus." I do think environmental stresses aren't a good thing for someone who has a compromised immune system.
 
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Forebearance

Well-Known Member
I have read that when a scientist tries to do research into the possible harmful effects of glyphosate herbicides, the Monsanto company makes a huge effort to ruin the career of the scientist.
 

Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
I have read that when a scientist tries to do research into the possible harmful effects of glyphosate herbicides, the Monsanto company makes a huge effort to ruin the career of the scientist.

When they were just starting to get in the news for Roundup Ready Corn, I was finishing my degree and decided that since GMOs weren't part of the curriculum yet, I'd do my senior project on it (bachelor's). I did talk to someone there. They did indeed cut off all contact with me once I started asking any important questions. I think I asked whether they foresaw any legal issues from neighboring farms from pollenation events. Something like that anyway. Corn pollenation is kind of tricky.

At the presentation of the highlights of the project, the Biology professor pitched a fit. Everyone was really surprised at his outburst, I remember. He never did say anything important about my project, he mainly foamed about "lack of quantitative data." I had a laugh at that, since Biology still has a low quantitative data stigma attached, and the studies I quoted were full of data of the numeric kind.

It would be interesting to see if he got an email from a "friend" in Monsanto before the presentation. I got a good education, but it was despite the place I studied, not because of it. A bigger collection of biostitutes, I don't care to see again. I won't name the place, but when one of the best professors gets mysteriously canned after running hands on classes in things you might actually do if you get a job in Biology, you have to wonder about their dedication to the Bachelor of Science degree (as opposed to Arts).

In my off time I found a job at the USDA and I did enjoy working with them, although everywhere you saw marketing trump common sense. This elderly fellow had developed a berry plant that was awesome, sweet and tangy, but couldn't market it because the raspberry lobby kicked up a fuss. So he was giving the plants away trying to get it to grow indigenously. He'd worked his whole life on that berry, using hybridization, not GMO. I bet one day we get a GMO version of it with less fuss made.

I think that was what made me decide to go into computers. IT is pretty neutral on the issues of the day. I do wonder though, what kind of people purposely destroy good ideas systematically and then claim they are enlightened? If this isn't a dark age, I don't know what is. First it was the Church now it's the Church of the Dollar.
 

Forebearance

Well-Known Member
Oh man, @Not dead yet! I really feel what you are saying.
I've heard a segment on NPR about farmers who were sued by Monsanto because their non-GMO corn was accidentally pollinated by their neighbor's GMO corn. It's just ridiculous.

The thing that makes me the most sad is that the farmers I know are super defensive about the subject of Round Up. I can't even talk to them about it without offending them. Apparently someone has been telling them that consumers are 'against them'. But it's not true. Where I live, everyone loves farmers and wants them to be able to make a decent living. I just don't want to spend my whole life having a horrible illness from being poisoned.

So it feels like farmers have already been brainwashed by the ag chemical companies. Sigh.

Have you all seen this article that came out yesterday? I am going to need to read this guy's book, I think, when it comes out this summer. He has figured out exactly HOW glyphosate causes human illness. Here it is:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/04/09/soil-microbes-intracellular-communication-affects-health.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170409Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM140297&et_rid=1960988545
 

Hip

Well-Known Member
autism ... gastrointestinal issues such as inflammatory bowel disease, chronic diarrhea, colitis and Crohn's disease, obesity, cardiovascular disease, depression, cancer, cachexia, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, and ALS, among others
I couldn't find any studies to back up a glyphosate link to any of those diseases. Where did you read that glyphosate is associated with these illnesses?

Pesticides of various sorts have been linked to ME/CFS, Parkinson's and other diseases, but I could not find any links between glyphosate and the diseases you list.

Glyphosate has been suspected of causing nephropathy though.
 

Per

New Member
I couldn't find any studies to back up a glyphosate link to any of those diseases. Where did you read that glyphosate is associated with these illnesses?

Pesticides of various sorts have been linked to ME/CFS, Parkinson's and other diseases, but I could not find any links between glyphosate and the diseases you list.

Glyphosate has been suspected of causing nephropathy though.
http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416/htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3955666/
 

Hip

Well-Known Member
@Per, those papers don't demonstrate any glyphosate links to disease. To demonstrate a link to a given disease, you have to show that groups of people exposed to glyphosate have a higher prevalence of that disease.
 

Wayne

Well-Known Member
I recently learned that outside research cannot be done on GMOs because they're patented, and thus it would be illegal. Don't know if the same applies to glyphosphate, which is also patented. -- I consider Monsanto to be the most evil corporation on the planet--and they have some mighty stiff competition!
 
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Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
I suspect it's more lack of funding that keeps Roundup ready food products from lots of independent research. I'm not sure there have been any grants offered or written and approved that specifically link a disease to Roundup ready crops. However we'd be foolish to ignore the effects on Cytochrome P450, even if we're skeptical about other things. Check the mechanism of action of any of your meds and see how many of them involve that enzyme. I suspect that part of the reason is that officially the gov shouldn't be meddling in business, but in this case, it is protecting business even when it goes wrong. Anyone can play the "economic fallout" card and discourage research about anything.

It would be illegal to sell Roundup Ready plants or seeds unless you're the patent holder, but that doesn't mean researchers can't buy the product and do research. First, they need a grant approved though. That's why I like places like academia.edu (not an edu really, they just have the name, they're a for profit place to post research), sometimes you see undergrad or masters students work there, which can be more revealing since no funding was provided other than tuition from the students.

There's more to the morass of how corporate interests have undermined real research. There is a doctor in the UK, famous for his debunking of the cholesterol causes heart disease theory, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick. He wrote a couple of books, my favorite is "Doctoring Data". There is also an academic movement led by psychology of all things, called "Metascience" that seeks to bring statistics and psych together to fix what's broken in research. But I mostly see things about that online, I haven't identified a good book on it yet. Monsanto should get busy trying to undermine the metasci movement asap. :D
 

Per

New Member
"If glyphosate products must carry a cancer warning, all that food becomes suspect as well, since the chemical cannot be washed off".
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/14/monsantos-roundup-cancer-warning-label.aspx

National Geographic's article.....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/150422-glyphosate-roundup-herbicide-weeds/

Have you been told you have a fatty liver? I have (& I don't drink)......
Dr. Antoniou: "For the very first time we have established a causative link between an environmentally relevant level of daily ingestion of Roundup and a serious disease, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease".
http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-risks-of-gmo-food-glyphosate-uncovered-scientists-ground-breaking-research/5574264?print=1

"Dr. Huber says he'd actually take DDT over glyphosate". "Is toxic to human DNA even when diluted to concentrations 450-fold lower than used in agricultural applications".
The endocrine disrupting properties also lead to neurological disorders (learning disabilities (LD), attention deficit hyperactive disorder (ADHD), autism, dementia, Alzheimer's, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder)".
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/13/glyphosate-ddt-alzheimers.aspx?e_cid=20140213Z1_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20140213Z1&et_cid=DM39324&et_rid=426505208
[bimg=fleft|no-lightbox][/bimg]

Like I've said before, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Glyphosate/RoundUp causes problems with fatty livers and other neurological diseases like autism, which is similar in many ways to ME/CFS.

We need ME/CFS-specific research on glyphosate. Period.

I think there will come a day when Roundup will be the new tobacco. We may not be able to get our lives back, but monetary compensation for careers lost would sure be nice, not to mention the suffering.
 

Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
.......

"Dr. Huber says he'd actually take DDT over glyphosate". "Is toxic to human DNA even when diluted to concentrations 450-fold lower than used in agricultural applications".
The endocrine disrupting properties also lead to neurological disorders (learning disabilities (LD), attention deficit hyperactive disorder (ADHD), autism, dementia, Alzheimer's, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder)".
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/13/glyphosate-ddt-alzheimers.aspx?e_cid=20140213Z1_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20140213Z1&et_cid=DM39324&et_rid=426505208
[bimg=fleft|no-lightbox][/bimg]
............
There's a connection between DNA disrupting chemicals and ME/CFS too. My premise here is if ME/CFS has a viral cause. That's not proven, but the definition I read just a couple of weeks ago, in the medical coding, calls it Post-viral syndrome. Now, it looks like they decided the two were mutually exclusive. (Based on what?) Observe:

http://icdlist.com/icd-10/G93.3

vs

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/R00-R99/R50-R69/R53-/R53.82

These codes are used to determine insurance coverage and are at the heart of the problem with ME/CFS, since little is known, it is constantly changing. That's putting our lives at risk by playing an endless game of musical chairs.

The first drug used in AIDS was AZT, it had been abandoned as a cancer drug because it was "too toxic" and laid waste to human DNA as well as viral DNA. In the early panic about AIDS, AZT was approved for use in AIDS patients, and probably caused as many deaths as it prevented. Modern therapy is called HAART and doesn't use AZT as a first line treatment.

Any connections drawn between AIDS and ME/CFS must necessarily be of a theoretical nature because although viruses are acknowledged to have a role in ME/CFS, the cause is not defined. However, it's an interesting thing you bring up when you mention that glyphosate disrupts DNA because DNA disruption was an early treatment for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.

The idea that ME/CFS is some kind of HIV-negative form of AIDS is not completely foreign to the ME/CFS community. Although the writer of this blog seems to have abandoned it, or more alarmingly seems to have died or disappeared, the data there is not a fantasy.

http://cfsstraighttalk.blogspot.com/
While I'm not fond of the layout of her blog, I've grown up enough to know not to judge a book by its cover. She just seems frustrated to me. We all are.

More alarming are the assumptions in this article and other similar ones if you google "me/cfs hiv-negative aids": http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/01/12/hiv-in-xmrv-out-how-scientists-deduce-what-does-and-doesnt-cause-a-disease/#.WQa6yvI5TVM

I'm not claiming these things are the truth. I have no lab and no scientists or even funding for them to find out. To find out whether it is true, we'd need good science, well funded, and free of political football effects.

If glyphosate has an AZT-like effect, even on a small scale, then it's not impossible that it could be the cause of the ME/CFS epidemic, all by itself. Check out the side effects of the only drug that is used specifically to disrupt DNA:

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-4386/zidovudine-oral/details#side-effects

That's a pretty accurate description of ME/CFS, I think. But then again, it's a good description of a bad flu also. That's what makes this illness so maddening.

All of this is a longwinded way of saying, yes I think we need to investigate GMO's as a source of illness. It should've been done long before they were approved as foods. When it comes to the food supply, the attitude of "better to apologize than ask permission" is invalid.

At the same time as GMO's, we also started irradiating foods to preserve them for long trips. I hope I don't need to point out the idiocy of that. In my mind, organic foods are the only foods.

The OP said, " I just hope my water filter gets rid of some of it, because otherwise there's just no way to avoid it."

I suggest you look at the cost of a home distilled water machine. There is debate on whether that's good or bad, but my opinion is this: 1. baby water is distilled and 2. there is NO way to filter out nitrates and they are the primary polluter of city water, and even poorly maintained well/septic systems in rural areas. For $150 I can KNOW my water is free of these things and if I'm concerned about trace minerals, I can add a splash of a mineral water I trust.
 
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