Lymph node pain on acyclovir

[fdotx]

Hi, I started acyclovir a month ago taking 1 800mg pill for 2 weeks then 2 a day and was to go to 3 a day but have had pain in my groin and underarms. Contacted the PA before starting 3 a day and she said not to increase until I feel better, to give it 2 more weeks, but that night the groin pain was pretty uncomfortable so didn't take any yesterday. Has anyone else had this problem and if so how long did it last? I'd like to make it work as it's so much cheaper than Famvir.

 

[Remy]

Hi, I started acyclovir a month ago taking 1 800mg pill for 2 weeks then 2 a day and was to go to 3 a day but have had pain in my groin and underarms. Contacted the PA before starting 3 a day and she said not to increase until I feel better, to give it 2 more weeks, but that night the groin pain was pretty uncomfortable so didn't take any yesterday. Has anyone else had this problem and if so how long did it last? I'd like to make it work as it's so much cheaper than Famvir.

If a viral reactivation is causing the lymph pain, it would seem that you might need to increase your dose more quickly.

Do you have any Famvir left? Maybe go back to that at a dose you know works for you and then when better, try taking Famvir and acyclovir together, gradually tapering down one and ramping up the other.

It's also possible that the Famvir was just a better choice for you, unfortunately. It does seem to have a broader spectrum than acyclovir.

 

[fdotx]

If a viral reactivation is causing the lymph pain, it would seem that you might need to increase your dose more quickly.

Do you have any Famvir left? Maybe go back to that at a dose you know works for you and then when better, try taking Famvir and acyclovir together, gradually tapering down one and ramping up the other.

It's also possible that the Famvir was just a better choice for you, unfortunately. It does seem to have a broader spectrum than acyclovir.

Hi Remy, thanks for responding. It's the drug, not the virus. I've been dealing with this stuff for decades and have never had lymph node pain until going on the drug 4 weeks ago. I've read it's not a common side effect but it does occur in a small portion of people. I haven't tried the Famvir, the PA originally ordered it but with my insurance it's 100 bucks a month vs the 2 for acyclovir, so tried this one first. I think given it's been a month, the pain is quite noticeable and I wasn't even at full dose is probably enough data to give it a rest.

 

[Tammy7]

A possibility to think of is your symptoms may be due to detoxing...........the virus is dying off and your already overwhelmed system is trying to deal with it. I would not increase the dose but stay at your present dose for awhile to see how your body does..............you may even find the present dose is too much right now.

 

[fdotx]

A possibility to think of is your symptoms may be due to detoxing...........the virus is dying off and your already overwhelmed system is trying to deal with it. I would not increase the dose but stay at your present dose for awhile to see how your body does..............you may even find the present dose is too much right now.

Thanks Tammy, I didn't take any yesterday but maybe I'll go back to one pill a day. I'll write the PA again.....

 

[Who Me?]

I have constant pain in the nodes in my groin. They feel like it goes down into my thighs. Nothing I have taken recently has helped it but I'm sure it's from some virus or infection.

Maybe I missed something you wrote when you said you knew i was the acyclovir and not the virus besides that it is a side effect? How do you know for sure?

It could be the virus like @Tammy7 and @Remy said

 

[fdotx]

I have constant pain in the nodes in my groin. They feel like it goes down into my thighs. Nothing I have taken recently has helped it but I'm sure it's from some virus or infection.

Maybe I missed something you wrote when you said you knew i was the acyclovir and not the virus besides that it is a side effect? How do you know for sure?

It could be the virus like @Tammy7 and @Remy said

Hi Who Me -- I've not had lymph node pain ever and have had problems with chronic fatigue for decades -- it started almost immediately after I took the aclovir 4 weeks ago.

 

[Remy]

A possibility to think of is your symptoms may be due to detoxing...........the virus is dying off and your already overwhelmed system is trying to deal with it. I would not increase the dose but stay at your present dose for awhile to see how your body does..............you may even find the present dose is too much right now.

But antivirals stop replication...they don't actually kill anything. So there isn't really anything to detox.

It's true that people do sometimes get inflammatory type IRIS reactions from antivirals though but it's not technically a herx.

 

[Remy]

I've been dealing with this stuff for decades and have never had lymph node pain until going on the drug 4 weeks ago. I've read it's not a common side effect but it does occur in a small portion of people. I haven't tried the Famvir, the PA originally ordered it but with my insurance it's 100 bucks a month vs the 2 for acyclovir, so tried this one first. I think given it's been a month, the pain is quite noticeable and I wasn't even at full dose is probably enough data to give it a rest.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were trying to switch from Famvir to acyclovir due to cost and experienced this newly emerged lymph node pain. I understand now.

Lymph node pain can be a side effect of AVs. In that case, I agree to drop the dose to minimize any inflammatory type reactions. It may also be that you just don't tolerate acyclovir and would do better on one of the others.

What virus are you trying to treat in particular??

 

[Who Me?]

Hi Who Me -- I've not had lymph node pain ever and have had problems with chronic fatigue for decades -- it started almost immediately after I took the aclovir 4 weeks ago.

Right and so what I am suggesting (don't know) is if it could be the virus causing the pain, vs the med. When I started on famvir I had horrible pain until I got used to it.

But no one knows. All you can do is drop the dose or stop it and see. Or switch to a different AV. I was ok with Acyclovir and Famvir, Valtrex was a big no.

 

[Tammy7]

Detoxing is not a thing.

My friend.............detoxing is in fact a very real thing. I don't think it is rocket science to understand that while the various bodily systems respond to get rid of virus, toxins, etc. etc................one can experience a myriad of uncomfortable and sometimes down right horrible symptoms. People can experience detox symptoms simply from changing their diet. Perhaps you don't like the word detox and would prefer to use another word?

 

[RuthAnn]

See if you have any of the side effects listed here.

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/acyclovir-side-effects.html

 

[RuthAnn]

It's very difficult for most of us to understand that because we have been brainwashed to think that the pain following something we are told will kill a pathogen is a sign that the something that is supposedly good for us is causing some sort of damage.


I am seeing a lot of this in the Lyme groups that I belong to.

I read some stuff at a vet's site, and that's what started me to understand it.

 

[Tammy7]

You can't just label every bad reaction "detox". It is not only false but it fails to explain the real issue causing the distress and paints it as something normal when there is zero evidence the painful reaction is helpful.

I told the poster that it may be POSSIBLE that her symptoms are a result of detoxing. I think you are tripped up on the word detox. I consider Detoxing to mean the body is ridding itself of toxins. To me a toxin can be viral. The poster's lymph glands may be swollen as a result of the body trying to get rid of toxic viral residue..............to me that is what detoxing means.

 

[Tammy7]

It is not possible it was from "detox" because "detox" is not anything anyone can experience. You might as well say it was God's finger pressing on her groin.

You make a convincing argument with the rest, but that does not mean I think you are right. I am just getting tired of trying to uneducate people about these misleading market babble woo woo terms that are keeping them from understanding why they are ill.

I edited my above post. To me the definition of Detoxing is the body getting rid of toxins period...............why does that sound so woo woo......................sounds pretty simple and practical to me. Also why would using that word keep a person from understanding why they are ill................that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[RuthAnn]

My understanding of viruses don't die they simply stop replicating. If a medicine makes them stop replicating, I would want to know how it does it.

If a virus stops replicating, would something come out of a cell? (detox on a cellular level)

If when a virus stops replicating does not cause pain, why would the drug cause pain?

If a virus stops replicating, would that cause pain?

Do meds for virii cause oxidative stress?

What is it about acyclovir that would cause it to potentially cause very serious kidney issues?

These are some questions this conversation is making me think of.

 

[RuthAnn]

This might explanation of how acyclovir works might explain what's going on your glands. You might have a virus in the glands where the pain is. The infected cells are absorbing more acyclovir than the normal cells, replicating on it before it knocks them out. IDK, does that make sense according to this description?

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Acyclovir is an antiviral drug, a synthetic nucleoside analogue, that has inhibitory activity (interferes with viral replication) against the herpes viruses, including herpes simplex 1 and 2 (cold sores and genital herpes), varicella-zoster (shingles andchickenpox), and Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis). Viruses take over living cells and reproduce themselves, often at the expense of the host cell. The acyclovir is converted to an active form by the virus itself, and the virus then uses the active form of acyclovir rather than the nucleoside it normally uses to manufacture DNA, a critical component of viral replication. Incorporation of active acyclovir into new viral DNA stops the production of the DNA. Virally infected cells absorb more acyclovir than normal cells and convert more of it to the active form, which prolongs its antiviral activity. The FDA approved acyclovir in March 1982.

 

[Remy]

My understanding of viruses don't die they simply stop replicating. If a medicine makes them stop replicating, I would want to know how it does it.

If a virus stops replicating, would something come out of a cell? (detox on a cellular level)

Read this page:

Anti-herpes medications disrupt the process by which the virus makes copies of itself and spreads to new cells. They work by inhibiting an enzyme that the virus has but human cells do not have and then interrupting the viruses' ability to synthesize DNA.
Nucleoside analogues are highly potent and selective inhibitors of viral enzyme thymidine kinase (TK). They depend on the activity of the viral thymidine kinase to convert the drug to a monophosphate form and subsequently interfere with viral DNA replication.
The principle of antiviral activity of nucleoside analogues acyclovir and penciclovir relies on the fact that herpes viruses (herpes simplex virus, varicella zoster virus and cytomegalovirus) encode their own nucleoside kinases which have a much lower substrate specificity than their cellular counterparts. Therefore, they are able to monophosphorylate certain nucleoside analogues whereas cellular nucleoside kinases cannot do so or only to a very limited extent.
The resulting analogue monophosphates are metabolized, by cellular kinases, to the respective triphosphates, which show distinctly lower molar inhibitory constants (Ki values) for herpes virus-encoded DNA polymerases than for cellular DNA polymerases. This step of antiviral selectivity causes obligate chain termination in the case of acyclovir and, thus, cessation of virus production. On the other hand, in contrast to acyclovir, which has only one hydroxyl group in its acyclic "sugar" moiety, penciclovir possess two hydroxyl groups and can be internally incorporated into the growing DNA chain. Its mode of antiviral action is less well understood so far.

If when a virus stops replicating does not cause pain, why would the drug cause pain?

Because of how it affects the immune system and influences cytokines, most likely.

If a virus stops replicating, would that cause pain?

No.

Do meds for virii cause oxidative stress?

Both viral infections and antiviral meds can cause oxidative stress.

What is it about acyclovir that would cause it to potentially cause very serious kidney issues?

According to Uptodate..."Crystal-induced acute kidney injury (AKI) is caused by the intratubular precipitation of crystals, which results in obstruction. Crystal-induced AKI most commonly occurs as a result of acute uric acid nephropathy and following the administration of drugs or toxins that are poorly soluble or have metabolites that are poorly soluble in urine".

 

[Remy]

You have a source for this?

Yes, but it's common knowledge that both drugs and infections cause oxidative stress. There's nothing earth shattering in that statement.

@Cort, we need this thread split, please, so that it doesn't continue to stray so far off topic of the OP's question.

 

[Who Me?]

@fdotx I think this is something you're going to figure out on your own. Lowering dose. Starting and stopping. Try to figure out if it's the med or your body reacting to it.