More Oxygen by EPO - How in natural way?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mats Lindström, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. Mats Lindström

    Mats Lindström Active Member

    EPO or erythropoietin is a hormone responsible for red blood cell production. It is produced primarily by the kidneys. Liver also produces it but in much smaller amounts. When oxygen levels in the blood are low, the body signals the kidneys to increase production of EPO. EPO stimulates additional production of stem cells from the bone marrow which are eventually transformed into red blood cells.

    In a study, 85% of CFS-patient got better in 15 days by medical EPO (injections).
    Source

    Do someone now aNything about effective herbals which increase the levels of erythropoietin? Astragalus?
    There are a matter of fact a lot of herbal stuff, but I do not know what´s working best. Here is one example:
    Source
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  2. Cort

    Cort Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising Staff Member

    Interesting...I know some ME/CFS practitioners use EPO. It certainly seems to make sense; low blood volume - low red blood cells - take EPO! I think Dr. Klimas and Ritchie Shoemaker do. I don't know many others do. I wonder why you don't hear about it much with regards to orthostatic intolerance???
     
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  3. tandrsc

    tandrsc Well-Known Member

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  4. Mats Lindström

    Mats Lindström Active Member

    That low blood volume may be involved is very interesting. The number of red blood cells is perhaps too few because of that reason :)

    Thank you Cort!
    Mats
     
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  5. greg hay

    greg hay Active Member

    High dose echinea will do the trick.
    Google it.
     
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  6. Seanko

    Seanko Well-Known Member

    At the UK CMRC conference in October 2015, I got somebody to ask Prof Julia Newton about EPO. Great minds think alike. :p

    She is Britain's leading expert in this area: Orthostatic Intolerance, Autonomic Nervous System dysfunction & the related illness of POTS.

    She replied that she her approach is to increase blood volume by drinking water & blood pressure by having more salt in the diet.

    Her current research involves looking at the heart & vascular system. I would say keep an eye on developments in Newcastle. It is the UK's unofficial Centre of Excellence for ME/CFS, comparable to Columbia & Stanford in the US.
     
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  7. Strike me lucky

    Strike me lucky Well-Known Member

    Athletes use portable altitude chambers to simulate being in high altitude . This has the ability to naturally increase red blood cells etc which athletes use instead of EPO which is illegal in sport.

    Athletes use to train in high altitude environments to increase their red blood cell numbers. What they have found is that using these portable altitude chambers, which are the size of a one man tent, athletes only need to sleep in them every night to obtain the benefits of living and training in high altitude areas.

    I haven't heard of any cfsers using this method but it seems interesting .
     
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  8. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, that's far from sufficient for many of us. Some patients take extra water and salt, but also have to take OI medications like Florinef to increase blood volume and various blood pressure medications based on the type of blood pressure problems you have. It's great if extra water and salt works, but it's not going to make enough difference if you have more than minimal low blood volume. If aldosterone is low you can drink all the water you want, it's just going to go straight through you.

    Florinef is the first line treatment for OI and POTS. It is also used to treat low blood pressure. The WHO considers it an essential medication for even the most basic healthcare system. Given that it's very commonly used for OI, I wonder why Newton doesn't use it.
     
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  9. tandrsc

    tandrsc Well-Known Member

    If anyone wants to listen to Julia Newton's presentation, here it is (starts just after 43 minutes in):


    The question and answer session starts just after 1.09 minutes in.
    The question on EPO is about 1.23 minutes in.
     
  10. Seanko

    Seanko Well-Known Member

    The tennis player Novak Djokovic sleeps in a depleted oxygen tent mimicking high altitude. The idea being to produce more red blood cells.

    In my town, there is an MS Centre an oxygen chamber where oxygen levels are higher than normal. I guess it will make you feel somewhat "high" and the effects will be short lived.
     
  11. Seanko

    Seanko Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I got the reply by email to the question so I didn't bother scouring the CMRC 2015 video :p Lazy :)
     
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  12. Empty

    Empty Well-Known Member

    I am not sure that JN particularly understand M.E. (I know she is POTS) but I have read some disturbing things from a few patients with M.E. I am still open minded but I have yet to have a clear understanding of what is really going on there.
     
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  13. Merida

    Merida Well-Known Member

    I commented last year about a trip to Vegas and staying in Circus Circus - at conference with husband. I expected to be completely fried, but woke up feeling very good - each day. I was shocked, talked to people. Ah , some casinos pump in extra oxygen ! Then others said No - they can't do that. About 2 years later my husband actually met the owner of a company that does indeed add oxygen to the air systems. Not all casinos do it.

    Interesting that I was just reading about Parvovirus B19, which can cause anemia by reducing red blood cell production in the bone marrow.
     
  14. Seanko

    Seanko Well-Known Member

    I have a Twitter friend who visits Newton's POTS & ME/CFS in Newcastle. I'll ask her if she is prescribed Florinef/Fludrocortisone. I have another contact nearer me who does use it for POTS.

    @IrisRV Do you use Fludrocortisone/Florinef for your symptoms?
     
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  15. Merida

    Merida Well-Known Member

    Another thought - I, my son, and my Mom are the RH D negs in the family - and the ones with symptoms. At one support group meeting ( about 15/16 people), over 55 per cent were RhD neg. the highest rate of RH D neg blood is in the Basques at 35 per cent. It is also high in Celtic groups. The average rate of RH D neg blood in Caucasions in the U.S. is about 15%. The RH D proteins on the surface of the red blood cells are thought to act as gas channels - allowing the release of carbon dioxide from the red blood cell. The cell must release CO2 before it can pick up oxygen.

    I could find no research on how these RH groups differ in oxygen pick up or carbon dioxide release.

    Geez. We are all thinking, thinking, thinking. And still, just sitting on the couch hoping for some answer, hoping for some energy to stand up.
     
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  16. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I'd love to hear Newton's thoughts on the matter. She knows a lot about OI.

    Yes, I do take fludrocortisone. It's been a big help for me, but it's not the answer for everyone.
     
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  17. Seanko

    Seanko Well-Known Member

    Without pre-judging any answer, I would imagine Julia Newton does prescribe fludrocortisone to appropriate patients. The video she made for the Dutch ME/CFS which mentioned upping water & salt consumption is for general information purposes.

    How has the fludrocortisone helped?
     
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  18. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    That makes sense. The first thing would be to try the easy things in case the OI is mild enough that that will work. No point taking meds you don't need. My cardiologist did that, although it was quickly evident extra fluids and salt was a complete failure as a treatment. In a general purpose video, I guess you wouldn't want to give the impression that fludrocortisone is automatically used in all patients.

    Fludrocortisone increased my BP, lowered my HR, and allowed me to be upright a lot more. I could do more without getting wonky or my HR and BP going wild. I could shower without having to go back to bed for the rest of the day, for example. I could climb a flight of stairs without having to lie down for an hour. I could sit upright many more hours a day. It helped with my cognitive function when I am upright. Not hugely, but noticeably. Overall, it improved my functionality.
     
  19. Remy

    Remy Administrator

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  20. Who Me?

    Who Me? Well-Known Member

    @IrisRV Are you still on it? Fludrocortisone?
     
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