Need help: Liver Pain from Methyl-B12 or Bentonite

Karina

New Member
Hello all,
I have been experiencing a lot of weird symptoms while trying to start methyl b12. My blood tests show that I have megaloblastic anemia, so I really need to replenish b12. The most concerning current problems are detox symptoms and abdominal pain, primarily below my right rib cage in the area of the liver, since starting sublingual methyl-B12. I was hoping my symptoms would subside as I continued treatment with B12, but the abdominal pain is not improving even though my other detox symptoms have lessened. I would greatly appreciate advice. I'll describe my situation more fully in the rest of this message if you are up to more reading.

This is my second attempt to start methyl-B12. My first attempt was carried out after following a very low sulfur diet ( < 30mg sulfur/100mg food) for two weeks (I am homozygous for CBS C699T). I stopped taking MSM when I started the low sulfur diet to furthur limit sulfur. I also started a sublingual 15mg zinc supplement the day before starting the low sulfur diet (I have high copper and low zinc). On the morning of the fifth day of the diet, I had about 4 hours where my mental clarity and cognitive function were the best they have been in 9 months. I started Sulfite XX that evening (molybdenum and manganese to help clear out sulfite) and have just finished a month and a half course of that. The 9th-11th days of the low sulfur diet were good days for me. I was actually able to eat 3 meals a day (I normally only have energy to eat one meal a day). But then I crashed on the 12th day. I started on 500mcg sublingual methyl-b12 as soon as the 2 week low sulfur diet was done.

The day after starting the methyl-b12, I took my morning meds (not including B12) and went back to sleep. I woke up that afternoon with a terrible taste in my mouth. Everything I ate or drank made the taste worse! I stopped taking B-12. The bad taste persisted, and a few days later I developed a spot of darker red/purple pigmentation in the middle of my tongue. It was not yeast or fungus. I discovered it after looking in my mouth on a night the taste had gotten especially horrendous. I started taking epsum salt and bentonite clay baths on the 5th day in with the bad taste to see if this was some sort of toxic dump triggered by the zinc and b12 combo. On the sixth day in with the bad taste, I stopped taking the zinc sublingual tablet to see if that would help. I took another detox bath that day and the taste was noticably reduced immediately after the detox bath. By the next morning, my taste was thankfully back to normal and the spot on my tongue was gone. I have not yet restarted the zinc.

I've been doing 1 week on and 1 week off with the low sulfur diet since then as maintenance and to see if more good days would happen. They havn't. I waited about 5 days after my taste returned to normal to re-attempt methyl-B12 starting 4/11. I started with just 1 drop (about 38mcg) a day and worked up from there. I was up to ~385mcg/day m-b12 by 4/16 and I attempted a bentonite clay and epsum salt bath. I was actually able to wash my hair (laying down) and felt less dizzy and drained afterwards than usual. It kind of felt like the detox bath was removing toxins and then allowing the b12 to give me a temporary energy boost.

I started getting burning nerve pains all over my body on 4/18, at which point I was up to 500mcg m-b12. I figured it was either the neuro issues I've been having (high intracranial pressure and chiari I malformation) or a result of m-b12. I found some other cases on line where people experienced nerve pain temporarily while correcting a b12 deficiency. Based on my blood work, I've probably been deficient for years. The nerve pain actually started as severe bladder pain, which then 'exchanged' for burning pain down the leg. When the burning nerve pain was less, the bladder pain got worse and vice versa. I stopped the B12 on 4/20 to see if the nerve pain would resolve. It only took a couple days for the majority of the nerve pain to go away, and things were back to normal by 4/25.

I restarted 625mcg m-b12 on 4/26 and had a really good energy day. Best energy day in about 9 months. I took 750mcg m-b12 the next morning and woke up in the afternoon feeling absolutely dreadful. The burning nerve pain was back, so that is definitely caused by the b12. I had lots of detox symptoms, like eczema, acne, and terrible body odor. My sweat actually smells like mildew/mold. After doing some reading, I'm wondering if I'm detoxing volatile organic compounds from mold, which are apparently the substance that give mold it's smell. Has anyone else experienced this?

I figured a bentonite and epsum salt bath might help if this was the result of m-b12 kickstarting my metabolic detox pathways. I had ordered a new bulk supply of sodium bentonite clay and used a couple cups of it in the bath (many times more than I had used in previous baths since I now had enough supply). Ideally, 1-5 pounds of bentonite clay is supposed to be used per bath. This was probably in the 1 pound range and I was careful to make sure bath temperature didn't exceed 100 degrees F. I spent about an hour in the bath and I was incredibly weak and shaky when I got out. I had to lay down immediately and couldn't even grab the rest of my things to bring with me from the bathroom to my room. I think I overdid it on the bentonite, which apparently can happen especially in sick people.

4/28 I woke up feeling awful with a lot of muscle pain and weakness/shaking when walking. My body odor was still terrible and my right abdomen and side under my rib cage hurt quite a bit. I also got pinching pain about 2 inches to the right of my belly button. I tried a kinesiology technique for closing the ileocecal valve so waste can't backwash and be re-absorbed by the liver (I learned how to do it on YouTube). I can't remember if I tried that before or after I started having liver pain. My guess would be after, since I found the technique while looking for ways to support my liver during detox. 4/29 I felt a bit better when I first woke up and took my meds, but I felt worse when I woke up again later in the afternoon (I took 500mcg m-b12 that morning). I had a lot of GI upset that day. I skipped b12 the next day and took a bentonite clay/epsum salt bath using less bentonite this time and staying in for about an hour. The bath made me feel a bit better. I restarted 500mcg m-b12 on 5/1. I noticed 5/2 that the b12 is making my teeth sensitive.

My body odor and eczema started to improve on 5/2 although they are still present. 5/5 through today 5/7, I have felt a subtle increase in energy, presumably from the b12. The burning nerve pain has mostly stopped, although there is still a very painful patch in my right calf that stings at random. I also have a ton of pain under my right rib cage/upper right quadrant of my abdomen. It goes from about belly button level up to just under my chest. If anything, it seems to be getting worse. I've also started experiencing a weird gurgling feeling that moves around my left chest, under my left rib cage, or just below my xyphoid process that syncs with my heart beat, but does not always coincide with the liver pain. I stopped taking the b12 today because this potential liver pain makes me think I might be damaging it. Any ideas why b12 would cause this? Or is there some way over-doing a sodium bentonite clay bath would cause this? That doesn't really make since though, since the bentonite should make this detox easier on the liver rather than harder, as it helps pull toxins out through the skin. I should also mention that I had a toxic metal urine test done before starting m-b12 and I had no mercury, lead, inorganic arsen, or arsenic. So it's unlikely that I'm reacting badly due to toxic metal mobilization, unless it's something we didn't tests for. Could it be my high copper levels? I don't think it's from the methyl group of methyl-b12 because I've taken methyl sulfonyl methane previously with good results. Any advice or knowledge would be greatly appreciated!!
 

Learner

Active Member
It's likely you have multiple things going on, and throwing something new into the mix can upset the apple cart.

From your description, you likely mobilized something. Was the urine metals test provoked with a chelator, like DMSA, DMPS, or EDTA? If not, or if the correct chelator wanly used on the substances you have, your heavy metals could have been missed. Or, there could be other toxins, like mold, organophosphates, etc.

In any case, if you are toxic, you need to have all 3 phases of detoxification working properly. B12 is involved in Phase II.

B12 is just one nutrient used in the process of methylation. You need the other nutrient cofactors for it to work properly, and then you need glutathione to be produced and recycled and then your transsulfuration pathway to work properly as well.

It would be good to get comprehensive nutrient testing done, like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval test that could guide you.

Without that info, you're just guessing. Things to try (in this order, as it works backwards to clear out toxins):
  • Take benfotiamine or other active form of B1 and taurine to get the transsulfuration pathway going.
  • Drink lots of water and eat lots of vegetables, nuts, etc. for fiber.
  • Sweat, through sauna or exercise, if you can.
  • Eat adequate protein, especially the amino acids, glycine, glutamine, and cysteine which are needed for glutathione production.
  • NAC, n-acetyl-cysteine, will help boost glutathione production.
  • Take Pyridoxal-5-phosphate, riboflavin, and magnesium malate or glycinate to support methylation.
Your dramatic reaction suggests a great deal of toxicity and significant problems in getting rid of it. You would be wise to find a good functional medicine practitioner to help you.or you may stress your kidneys and liver inadvertently. (I've had this happen, with kidney and liver pain, even with excellent medical supervision.)

Failing that, adopting a slow, steady detox protocol, with proper methylation and nutritional support in place would be useful.
 

Not dead yet!

Well-Known Member
I didn't see choline mentioned in this conversation so I'll mention it now. It was added to the essential nutrient list in 1998, but it is not yet a "vitamin" in the classic sense. The adequate intake per day is around 500mg, and they've found experimentally that fatty liver can be reversed (if caused by deficiency of choline) with a 2 grams per day intake. There is much more to the story. I suggest pubmed searches on this subject as it is still not in the mass media. For me, I've found the simplest solution is to eat liver. Easy for me to do, I love it. But if you don't, you may have to find a way or to use egg yolks instead. Both are high in choline. About 5-10x higher than cauliflauer (one of the veggies with the highest amount of choline).

I hope that Karina is okay and I would like to know how she's doing because I have a similar issue. Any time I try to kickstart my metabolism and / or detox, I get big reactions. I hope that choline is the key, but I will let my body stock up on it first before I attempt another detox.

PS: I use chlorophyll to keep body odor down. Also alfalfa supplements which last longer. I don't think it is cosmetic. When I started eating liver again, I had a big improvement in bowel movement frequency (not loose, just suddenly started "working" again). The smell was a smell of ammonia. That is terribly toxic to the body. The chlorophyll stopped it and my feeling of malaise also improved. This is not a coincidence, this happens to me each time my BMs get smelly, it is with a feeling of malaise. And chlorophyll not only stops the smell, it stops the malaise. For me. YMMV
 

Merida

Well-Known Member
@Not dead yet!
Very interesting! This sure suggests a specific metabolic issue. Think someone should start looking at everything we are 'throwing off ' in our urine. Bet patterns would show up. But this type of research doesn't have the 'cache' that researchers or funders like???
 

ladybug64

Member
Is your ferritin elevated? I have the liver pain, too, along with elevated ferritin--finally found out I have iron building up in my liver due to heredity hemachromatosis .
Also like you, I have the horrible burning pain--was recently diagnosed with advanced Small Fiber Neuropathy proven by skin biopsys (Therapath is test company name).

Hope this info helps you!
 

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