Opiate to prevent damage? Weird but true.

Folk

Well-Known Member
So I can't stay for too long up on my feet. If I stay put my back start to hurt a lot, if I walk my legs start to hurt. And in any of the cases both will start hurting after 40 minutes or so...

I discovered that if I take 1 Paratram (Tramadol + Paracetamol) I can stay up on my feet for hours with a lot less pain. Even if I overdo it, let's say 3-4 hours, I would start to feel pain but not as much as without it, and it would be bareable specially if I sit for sometime here and there.
Now, the thing is. I remember +- 3 months ago, a 5-10 minute walk (funnily I was going to a doctor :meh:), on an uneven ground, mostly with ups, left me with pain on my calf muscles for something like a week.

BUT after yesterday, where I really pushed myself too much. I took a Paratram and went to a party and stayed up for 3 hours and even did some minor dance movements (not that I would rock the dancefloor if I could but anyway :p), then my back and legs started to hurt a lot so I had to sit for a while, and took another paratram, then I could get up and endure it for more 3-4 hours. Today nothing... Just a minor leg sore and perhaps a little sleepier than most days but nothing major.

So the thing is: Tramadol doesn't just takes away the pain at the moment but also "prevents" dammage. Like if it's telling to the brain "nothing wrong here, not lactic acid now".

I would assume that this means the problem still more on the nervous system than on the muscles itself. Anyone anything to add?
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
I cant remember exactly how, but there is something in tramadol that works on the brain chemistry, not just for pain. When I take it, more for sleep, I'm in an awesome mood the entire next day. I don't take it often because it totally constipates me. Bit I like it for the mood stuff

@Strike me lucky can explain
 

Folk

Well-Known Member
I cant remember exactly how, but there is something in tramadol that works on the brain chemistry, not just for pain. When I take it, more for sleep, I'm in an awesome mood the entire next day. I don't take it often because it totally constipates me. Bit I like it for the mood stuff

@Strike me lucky can explain
It's probably because it inhibits the reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine.
 

Merida

Well-Known Member
Also, opiates are used to treat the severe dysautonomia attacks that can occur in spinal cord injury patients. They dampen the hyper sympathetic discharges. Pain, by itself, can cause dysautonomia episodes. Opiates can also act on the nucleus accumbens (the alarm center) to stimulate dopamine discharge. Interesting that dysauatonomic attacks can occur when stopping drugs that increase dopamine.

I was shocked when I took my first opiate med ever following the injury. I got a little energy, my mood improved, the pain lessened.
 

Seanko

Well-Known Member
Also, opiates are used to treat the severe dysautonomia attacks that can occur in spinal cord injury patients. They dampen the hyper sympathetic discharges. Pain, by itself, can cause dysautonomia episodes. Opiates can also act on the nucleus accumbens (the alarm center) to stimulate dopamine discharge. Interesting that dysauatonomic attacks can occur when stopping drugs that increase dopamine.
Yes, looked up Tramadol on Wikipedia. It increases serotonin (& noradrenaline) levels . This helps because serotonin is a vaso-constrictor, this means it constricts blood vessels increasing blood pressure & helping the the orthostatic intolerance (dizziness when standing).
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
If I could get it without the constipating opioids I'd take it in a heartbeat. That's how good it makes me feel.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
So I can't stay for too long up on my feet. If I stay put my back start to hurt a lot, if I walk my legs start to hurt. And in any of the cases both will start hurting after 40 minutes or so...

I discovered that if I take 1 Paratram (Tramadol + Paracetamol) I can stay up on my feet for hours with a lot less pain. Even if I overdo it, let's say 3-4 hours, I would start to feel pain but not as much as without it, and it would be bareable specially if I sit for sometime here and there.
Now, the thing is. I remember +- 3 months ago, a 5-10 minute walk (funnily I was going to a doctor :meh:), on an uneven ground, mostly with ups, left me with pain on my calf muscles for something like a week.

BUT after yesterday, where I really pushed myself too much. I took a Paratram and went to a party and stayed up for 3 hours and even did some minor dance movements (not that I would rock the dancefloor if I could but anyway :p), then my back and legs started to hurt a lot so I had to sit for a while, and took another paratram, then I could get up and endure it for more 3-4 hours. Today nothing... Just a minor leg sore and perhaps a little sleepier than most days but nothing major.

So the thing is: Tramadol doesn't just takes away the pain at the moment but also "prevents" dammage. Like if it's telling to the brain "nothing wrong here, not lactic acid now".

I would assume that this means the problem still more on the nervous system than on the muscles itself. Anyone anything to add?
That's interesting. You never know what these drugs will do......Some of them are used for so many different things...
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
If I could get it without the constipating opioids I'd take it in a heartbeat. That's how good it makes me feel.
Hopefully the next generation of opioid drugs will work for you...and for me!
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Also, opiates are used to treat the severe dysautonomia attacks that can occur in spinal cord injury patients. They dampen the hyper sympathetic discharges. Pain, by itself, can cause dysautonomia episodes. Opiates can also act on the nucleus accumbens (the alarm center) to stimulate dopamine discharge. Interesting that dysauatonomic attacks can occur when stopping drugs that increase dopamine.

I was shocked when I took my first opiate med ever following the injury. I got a little energy, my mood improved, the pain lessened.
I believe opioid receptors are all over the brain (?) so it makes sense that they might affect a lot. That dopamine connection is interesting! I believe it about pain and the autonomic nervous system too.

The next gen of opioid drugs = they are working on them now - may reduce side effects significantly.
 

Who Me?

Well-Known Member
Hopefully the next generation of opioid drugs will work for you...and for me!
I don't have the kind of pain that is helped with opioids, but when I do take tramadol for sleep, I just feel awesome. If they could get that aspect of it as its own drug I'd take it. Most other brain stuff does not work for me.
 

Folk

Well-Known Member
Yeah in my case I can't take them too much. If I take it everyday they start to loose effect and I have to take more and more, and also start having headaches (never found out if it's from the tramadol or somekind of abstinence till the next dose). So I'm leaving for those kind of situations
 

Merida

Well-Known Member
Yes, the opiates are a mixed bag. There is a brand new drug to ameliorate the constipation - probably only costs $2,ooo a month and first born child. But there are other helps - magnesium and Miralax.

I started on 60 mg. oxycodone per day 17 years ago - after incredible suffering for 7 months on no meds. Saved my life.No tolerance issues at that dosage. I weaned to 15 mg. 2 years ago. Trying to wean off completely, but get profound autonomic issues. Don't know if the opiates have altered my autonomic system. I had dysautonomia initially on no meds. So ????

I do have a few observations: long acting opioids can produce profound rebound pain etc. within the first week of therapy. Fentanyl patch is very difficult to ever wean down and get off. Reports from support group members - methadone is also impossible to wean down from. Everyone seems to have a slightly different response to various opioids, so some trial and error is necessary.
 

Victor Maalouf

Active Member
From my own experience, research, and listening to others', I believe the way this may work is because it eliminates the need to alter movement patterns and tense overactive muscles that are normally used to alleviate musculoskeletal pain, from whatever source: injury, minor strain, myofascial pain, structural instability, etc.

This reaction to pain is a big contributor to furthering the musculoskeletal warping we can see in us.

In my case, the first injury I associated with the string heading towards my eventual crash was a strain of my upper left back from doing front squats. Afterwards, I would constantly tense my back up to alleviate the pain. However, it just traveled from one muscle fiber to another, causing me to alter my tension response. It snowballed to further worsen the asymmetry in my body, which then contributed to the rest of the minor or larger injuries and strains I experienced in the next half year until my crash.

Muscle tension and compensatory movement patterns in response to pain will always be asymmetrical and build on any dysfunction our bodies may already be in. So if you can eliminate the pain, allowing your body to move more naturally when you exert yourself, you are less likely to tense back into your dysfunction.

My theory, anyway.
 

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