Taking Synthroid/Levo and Not feeling good

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jaminhealth, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

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  2. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    I have a problem with levothyroxin and Armor. :arghh: My good solution is liothyronine. Thankfully there are enough options to find the right one.
  3. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    So that is only T3 right? I am now taking Naturthroid and find it good for me, I need T4 and T3...armour pricing got to be out of sight for me. Changing formulations, changing ownership of company etc ...but in 2002, it saved me.
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  4. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    Yes it is active T3 only. Apparently when tests were done, my Active to Inactive T3 ratio was out of whack.

    My local independent pharmacy was finding me a $24 price on Armor when my insurance company had a hiccup. I know it seems like the chain pharmacies have taken over but there's always a little guy out there somewhere with superior customer service.
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  5. Remy

    Remy Administrator

  6. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    So it's only T4 is that correct? And you do convert OK to the T3 with the T4 only med.
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  7. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    Yes, it is T4 only.

    I do seem to convert pretty well, but of course, my FT3 is lower because of the increased efficacy of thyroid hormone from eating a ketogenic diet.

    There are so many variables! Thyroid is always tough to get optimized.
  8. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    I get my best info from Stop The Thyroid Madness blog and info..they say for best optimal results, very low TSH and T3 and T4 at the highest end of the lab range. I work for that goal. How optimal I am I don't know but I did poorly on T4 only.
    Remy likes this.
  9. Remy

    Remy Administrator

    I like STTM, but there are many places where our opinions have diverged over the years.

    I do think that thyroid is probably a continuum of sorts, with some people doing well on T4 alone, some doing well on T3 alone, and the majority needing *some* mixture.

    But I don't think that they properly address low T3 syndrome (which is what most of us probably really have with chronic illnesses like MECFS).

    T4 is not just a storage hormone. It has important biological activities on its own too.

    I also disagree with their stance on rT3. T3 always binds preferentially to receptors even in the presence of rT3. The whole idea of receptors being blocked by rT3 is totally unsupported by the many studies that have been done and I can't understand why people continue to measure it.

    And lastly, I think their ferritin suggestions are completely out of line at 70-90. A more appropriate level is 55 according to the scientific literature. Beyond that, it is easy to become iron toxic especially when getting iron from supplements instead of foods.
  10. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    Nix what I said about liothyronine. It seems I'm back to daily headaches that start after the second dose. It is a short acting one and so a second dose in the afternoon is needed. Sadly that's at the critical 3pm time when my migraines were triggered many years ago.

    I started a new thread about the connection between neanderthal genetics and thyroid since this one is about the drugs. I'm considering trying the "Japanese solution" next and taking larger than normal doses of iodine. I don't always do well on large doses of vitamins, but when I do, it's pretty miraculous.

    For example:

    Vitamin E, C, A, Choline: miracles

    Vitamin Folate, Biotin, most B vitamins: bad reactions

    So I'll give iodine a chance. I know I'll have trouble getting off of the med, so I'll go slow. I wont' know if the change works for several weeks. Sigh.
  11. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    I did well on Armour thyroid years ago, but when my old doctor was no longer available, my new PCP refused to prescribe Armour and changed me to Synthroid (levothyroxine). I didn't do nearly as well on that, but there was no telling my new PCP.

    Sometime later, my ME specialist added Cytomel (liothryronine) which provided a noticeable improvement. It seems evident I don't convert well, but my PCP wouldn't accept that that's possible and wouldn't do the necessary labs to show it. I continue to be stumped about why so many doctors think their opinion trumps scientific evidence.
  12. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    It's a crime that medical schools push the doctors coming out with the Synthroid levo CWAP...how they've been able to monopolize the thyroid world...big payouts to medical schools.

    I did horrible on Syn T4 only and only go to an integrative MD who works out of the big bad box of allopathic MD's.
  13. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    I'm starting to believe it wasn't my thyroid it was iodine deficiency. Upping my plain Morton salt intake (with iodine) and pouring a bunch of seaweed (I have a Maine mix of laver, sea lettuce, etc) into just packaged miso soup has been a huge stabilizing force. Mind sharper, much more energy. No feeling of extreme heavyness in limbs. Headaches clearing up. Amazing. I hope it lasts. Fore reference, the good way to get more is via seaweed and shellfish. Morton's, you'd have to have a tablespoon to reach even a low dose that a typical Japanese person gets in a day, and that's too much salt.

    I'm experimenting with making dashi, but I'm culturally handicapped for it I think. I keep wanting to cook it too long. And I suspect that even a stainless steel pot reacts to it. More experiments to come.
  14. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    Well, it's said iodine deficiency leads to HypoT....I don't use Morton's...but am on thyroid support NOW since 2002 and do take 1-2 drops Iosol iodine daily.

    I like seafoods but don't get enough in my diet.
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  15. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    Here is what the WHO has to say about populations in the world who have iodine deficiency and how they determine that, plus how it affects TSH. It should be noted that most doctors and medical professionals assume that people do not have iodine deficiency (without checking) simply because of the existence of iodized salt. It might be true, if you can confirm that all packaged processed and restaurant foods use iodized salt exclusively. But I don't think that's the case, and I've never been asked by a doctor, "Do you use iodized salt?" I think it's a mistaken assumption.

    I became interested because in my case, my TSH didn't go down until my T3 was "too high" and my T4 was considered "low" so what they say about overlap is really on the ball. They don't mention genetics but I'd bet that those of us with more Neanderthal DNA might have different needs of some nutrients.

    Article: 4.4.1
    Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH)
    Biological features

    The pituitary secretes TSH in response to circulating levels of T4. Serum
    TSH rises when serum T4 concentrations are low, and falls when they
    are high. Iodine deficiency lowers circulating T4 and raises the serum
    TSH, so iodine-deficient populations generally have higher serum TSH
    concentrations than do iodine-sufficient groups.

    However, the difference is not great and much overlap occurs between
    individual TSH values. Therefore, the blood TSH concentration
    in school-age children and adults is not a practical marker for iodine
    deficiency, and its routine use in school-based surveys is not recommended.
    In contrast, TSH in neonates is a valuable indicator for iodine deficiency.

    The neonatal thyroid has a low iodine content compared to that of
    the adult, and hence iodine turnover is much higher. This high turnover,
    which is exaggerated in iodine deficiency, requires increased stimulation
    by TSH. Hence, TSH levels are increased in iodine-deficient populations
    for the first few weeks of life – this phenomenon is called transient
    hyperthyrotopinemia (25).

    The prevalence of neonates with elevated TSH levels is therefore a
    valuable indicator of the severity of iodine deficiency in a given population.
    It has the additional advantage of highlighting the fact that iodine
    deficiency directly affects the developing brain.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  16. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    When I've missed some iodine dosing for a while, I would get breast pains/tenderness. So no more as I take at least 1 drop daily.

    Iodine is needed for ALL body tissues.

    I don't get mammograms, had 2 in early 50's and none since and I'm 79.
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  17. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    About Iodized salt and processed foods (emphasis mine)

    Article: Iodized Salt

    More than 70 countries, including the United States and Canada, have salt iodization programs. As a result, approximately 70% of households worldwide use iodized salt, ranging from almost 90% of households in North and South America to less than 50% in Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean regions [3].

    In the United States, salt manufacturers have been adding iodine to table salt since the 1920s, although it is still a voluntary program [12]. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved potassium iodide and cuprous iodide for salt iodization [14] while the WHO recommends the use of potassium iodate due to its greater stability, particularly in tropical climates [3]. According to its label, iodized salt in the United States contains 45 mcg iodine/g salt (between 1/8 and 1/4 teaspoon); measured salt samples have an average level of 47.5 mcg iodine/g salt [12]. However, the majority of salt intake in the United States comes from processed foods, and food manufacturers almost always use non-iodized salt in processed foods. If they do use iodized salt, they must list the salt as iodized in the ingredient list on the food label [8].
  18. Not dead yet!

    Not dead yet! Well-Known Member

    I don't get mammograms either, it's part of my revolt against insurance companies wanting to limit new techniques and leave the USA in a dark age of medicine. When men volunteer to have their nuts smooshed in a machine for a routine checkup, I'll get a mammogram. Until then, they can CAT or MRI scan me, or use the new infrared technique.

    STTM has a great writeup on the use of iodine in thyroid disorders. On the advice there, I decided to try adding back some of the T3 liothyronine, but a much smaller dose. So far so good. I noticed that taking a strong antihistamine for sleep is not going to work for me anymore. I wake up feeling like my thyroid meds aren't working. If I don't take it, I feel fine in the AM. Assuming I'm sleeping at night. It's so hard to figure stuff out when your body doesn't pay attention to the diurnal cycle.

    When I next have the mental energy, I'll go for articles on antihistamines and what they really do, because for a long time I've suspected they're not a good thing. At least they're not always good.
  19. IrisRV

    IrisRV Well-Known Member

    According to my (now former) doctor (who obviously loves her rules thumb over science and logic), Synthroid is just fine because T4 is converted to T3. When I inquired what happens if the conversion process isn't working, she just ignored me in that "Shut up, I'm the brilliant doctor here. Don't question me" way some of them have.

    I have no idea if this is some payoff to medical schools problem or just lazy thinking and arrogance.

    There are many excellent allopathic MDs out there. They're the ones who are intelligent, thoughtful, logical, and in the field to help people. Unfortunately, there are nevertheless some less than good MDs who are more interested in money and power over people than in improving health and relieving suffering. Every profession has its duds.
    jaminhealth likes this.
  20. I’m so stuck right now. One doctor wants to put me on thyroid medicine, synthroid. Half my other doctors agree and half do not. My thyroid tests are not in the abnormal range although the endo likes to explain how they use different parameters. I have Hashimotos Encephalopathy (rare), ME and fibromyalgia. I do have the symptoms of hypothyroid but some could be explained by being post menopausal which I went into menopause at 34, they say due to my autoimmune issues. I’m on Famvir to try to get rid of EBV. My thyroid antibodies are sky high but again I have Hashimotos Encephalopathy. Really don’t want to take more medicine especially if I’m in the normal range. Any advice?