Anyone looking at grey market peptides?

[leebrown5]

I saw some information about MOTS-c and wondered if anyone had additional information

 

[andrei25]

MOTS-c is one of the more interesting peptides to read about because it’s actually encoded by mitochondrial DNA, which is pretty unusual.

I work with Peptides.io, and we recently looked into the research on it. The animal data around energy metabolism and AMPK is interesting, but the human evidence is still really early, so I’d be careful with some of the stronger claims being made online.

We put together a straightforward research summary here if it helps:

MOTS-c: Mitochondrial Peptide Research Guide – Peptides.io

MOTS-c is an early-stage peptide from your cells' power plants, studied for energy. It is not FDA-approved.

peptides.io

I’d also be interested to hear if anyone here has found good human data beyond the newer clinical trials.

 

[leebrown5]

I have been trying it on myself, these are the initial results - afaik there is no scientific evidence for human use, dosing or timing. I am using grey market information for myself. Of course long term results are 100% unknown, I am my own guinea pig. I was wondering if anyone else was doing something similar

 

[janetmurphy]

What are you/your Garmin measuring here?

 

[leebrown5]

Garmin has a "body battery" reading that it generates each morning. I'm not clear on what it uses in its calculations. I also have it linked to Fatigue sense for my own use, and a relay app called Labfront for a clinical trial I am currently wrapping up. Neither of them gives me much insight but the fatigue sense is not able to extract an HRV which is unfortunate. So I can't say if it sees an HRV but if it does it keeps it to itself LOL

 

[leebrown5]

I'm considering asking my kids to gift me a whoop subscription. I had it for 3 years and it generated lots of biometric data but in March I got fired just ahead of my renewal and right when I was given the Garmin by the trial people in Boston so I cancelled it. It's a little pricey but I really liked the deep dive data and it would be nice to have it in parallel with the Garmin. Not sure if it can share with Fatigue sense and I would probably use both.
Whoop doesn't know that people can be unhealthy which is annoying. But it needs very little recharging compared to Garmin vivosmart 5. And my Garmin has a tendency to light up very bright with red and or white lights while on my wrist In The Middle of The Night!!!! Grrr... I don't have it on the original silicone band, I bought a cloth like band so maybe that's part of it.

 

[EstherJonesPeptide]

@leebrown5, Garmin says Body Battery is an estimate based on HRV, stress, sleep and activity. It isn't measuring MOTS-c or mitochondrial output. I can see why you'd watch it alongside symptoms, but a change in that number alone can't tell you what caused it; sleep and activity can move it too.

The MOTS-c research is genuinely interesting, just more specific than many online summaries make it sound. In a 2021 paper, exercise raised the body's own MOTS-c in ten men. In separate experiments, giving MOTS-c to mice improved their physical performance. The men weren't given MOTS-c, and the study didn't test fatigue improvement in people with ME/CFS.

One person who posted a 20-day account described better endurance and recovery, but also itchy welts and bruising. They were using other compounds as well, so the cause of the changes is hard to separate. Your tracking adds a real-world observation to this discussion, even if it can't settle that question by itself.

I contribute to PeptideWHY. Hey, check out this article if you want the study and that user report in one place: https://peptidewhy.com/materials/mots-c/ . It shows which findings came from people and which came from mice.

 

[leebrown5]

@leebrown5, Garmin says Body Battery is an estimate based on HRV, stress, sleep and activity. It isn't measuring MOTS-c or mitochondrial output. I can see why you'd watch it alongside symptoms, but a change in that number alone can't tell you what caused it; sleep and activity can move it too.

The MOTS-c research is genuinely interesting, just more specific than many online summaries make it sound. In a 2021 paper, exercise raised the body's own MOTS-c in ten men. In separate experiments, giving MOTS-c to mice improved their physical performance. The men weren't given MOTS-c, and the study didn't test fatigue improvement in people with ME/CFS.

One person who posted a 20-day account described better endurance and recovery, but also itchy welts and bruising. They were using other compounds as well, so the cause of the changes is hard to separate. Your tracking adds a real-world observation to this discussion, even if it can't settle that question by itself.

I contribute to PeptideWHY. Hey, check out this article if you want the study and that user report in one place: https://peptidewhy.com/materials/mots-c/ . It shows which findings came from people and which came from mice.

You are absolutely correct, the Garmin is not measuring the MOTS-c in any direct way, the Garmin battery number seems to be reflecting some change in the biometrics that it uses in the battery calculation. I don't know what factor is changing. While the bump does seem to correlate to the MOTS-c... ultimately I can't feel any changes. No increase in energy or reduction in fatigue or PEM.
I liked the whoops ability to tease out small effects, like my glp experiment reported a 4% improvement and I could discern an improvement in my day to life (a loss of food noise which I never knew was even a thing, I've never had it before this LC and now I usually am willing to at least stab a person if not outright murder for dessert. I was never even a dessert person before!)
But glp is too pricey so I guess I'll just get fat. I'm old now so really not too concerned LOL.
Anyway, if I had more individual data streams to watch it would be interesting to see what's moving the Battery number but still, point ultimately is in how I feel and the MOTS-c shots aren't changing the day to day experience

 

[EstherJonesPeptide]

That’s a useful distinction. If the wearable number moves but your fatigue, PEM and day-to-day life don’t, I wouldn’t call that a benefit. Your GLP experience sounds different because you actually noticed less food noise, even though the cost made continuing difficult. Thanks for spelling out both outcomes so clearly; a graph can be interesting without telling the whole story.

 

[janetmurphy]

I saw some information about MOTS-c and wondered if anyone had additional information

Hi. I have about $3000 worth of gray market peptides and have been using ones that work for almost 2 years now. That said. I have ME/CFS/FM. I was most interested in the specific peptides and peptide protocols that are intended to help ailing mitochondria that are no longer producing energy properly. They are also used for many other issues as they are made up of amino acid strings that already exist in our bodies. You mentioned Mots-c which is one of the ones you often see in a mitochondria protocol. But this area of science requires sequencing of several different peptides over the course of several months. You see some of these in commercial products such as NAD+ patches that people put on their wrists or just take as a supplement. People claim they work. But they don't have ME. They also seem to quickly disappear from the market. There are also nootropic of peptides that have helped countless people who do not have ME with cognition, brain fog, clear thinking. And then my favorite category, peptides for tissue and cartilage repair, heavy duty anti-inflammatories such as BPC, Cartalax, TB4, KPV and others that do work on pain, even for me. Each of those are easily researched online. The beauty business is now replete with the use of peptides, and don't forget that insulin and GLP's are peptides/peptide based and due to the astronomical number of people who want to lose weight so much more information about the positive things that they can do for people in the cardiovascular realm, glucose control etc. have surfaced. I believe the science of peptides in the use of them will be broad-based and widespread going forward. That said I would just like to reiterate that none of the mitochondria repair you might say peptides and protocols worked at all for me. Neither did the Nootropics. Except for pain inflammation and beauty I have seen significant changes.

 

[janetmurphy]

Hi. I have about $3000 worth of gray market peptides and have been using ones that work for almost 2 years now. That said. I have ME/CFS/FM. I was most interested in the specific peptides and peptide protocols that are intended to help ailing mitochondria that are no longer producing energy properly. They are also used for many other issues as they are made up of amino acid strings that already exist in our bodies. You mentioned Mots-c which is one of the ones you often see in a mitochondria protocol. But this area of science requires sequencing of several different peptides over the course of several months. You see some of these in commercial products such as NAD+ patches that people put on their wrists or just take as a supplement. People claim they work. But they don't have ME. They also seem to quickly disappear from the market. There are also nootropic of peptides that have helped countless people who do not have ME with cognition, brain fog, clear thinking. And then my favorite category, peptides for tissue and cartilage repair, heavy duty anti-inflammatories such as BPC, Cartalax, TB4, KPV and others that do work on pain, even for me. Each of those are easily researched online. The beauty business is now replete with the use of peptides, and don't forget that insulin and GLP's are peptides/peptide based and due to the astronomical number of people who want to lose weight so much more information about the positive things that they can do for people in the cardiovascular realm, glucose control etc. have surfaced. I believe the science of peptides in the use of them will be broad-based and widespread going forward. That said I would just like to reiterate that none of the mitochondria repair you might say peptides and protocols worked at all for me. Neither did the Nootropics. Except for pain inflammation and beauty I have seen significant changes.

*have not seen significant changes. I think the science is fascinating and on the cusp of FDA conditional approval for some of them, very worth it to know about them. There are 100's of thousands of people around the world who are using them. Including doctors, nurses etc. I will caution however, that many of the people using them have one or two things in common...either an autoimmune disorder or a disease like EBV, Long Covid, ME...where there are no definitive treatments, people are exhausted from seeking help and not finding any and to a great extent the gym bros, sports medicine doctors and the seriously ill have become guinea pigs out of desperation. But that desperation has led to some new forms of help for a lot of people. I didn't mention all the things and all of the peptides that are available because there are hundreds and hundreds maybe thousands, because that's how many amino acid strings we have in our bodies. You can go to the NIH website and search for trials and studies using peptides. And there are books about them now from some of the pioneers of using them like Dr Seeds. But what is really useful are the conversations found in forums on certain social media with closed channels where people discuss openly what they are using and why and how it's helping or not.