Fibro Fix - Does it work?

Learner

Active Member
A friend in the supplement industry forwarded this podcast to me:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/elevate-your-energy/id633325097?mt=2&i=1000374869111

It's free, and it's an interview with Dr. Brady, creator of Fibro Fix. He claims great success curing people with fibromyalgia.

Has anyone here been treated by him or been cured by his methods? He has a book and a line of supplements.

Any thoughts or comments? I'm a little skeptical, though some of what he says makes sense.

And, to be very clear, I'm not selling or recommending this at all. I'm just curious.
 

Learner

Active Member
The FDA is fast tracking Phase III clinical trials for a drug that suppresses HSV-1 (cold sore virus) which is believed to be causing Fibromyalgia.

The drug they are researching is called IMC-1.http://me-pedia.org/wiki/Fibromyalgia#Trials
I just saw the article about this on the Simmaron Research site.

It seems they've had some success with a combination of famvir and celecoxib. While it's tempting to find the magic pill, both of these drugs are known to disrupt mitochondrial function, and could potentially complicate treatment.

http://www.mitoaction.org/files/Dykens for Mitoaction.pdf

Also, with good reason, Dr. Naviaux has warned about use of antivirals and the risk of mitochondrial toxicity.

Compensating by supporting mitochondria might be wise.
 

ankaa

Well-Known Member
I just saw the article about this on the Simmaron Research site.

It seems they've had some success with a combination of famvir and celecoxib. While it's tempting to find the magic pill, both of these drugs are known to disrupt mitochondrial function, and could potentially complicate treatment.

http://www.mitoaction.org/files/Dykens for Mitoaction.pdf

Also, with good reason, Dr. Naviaux has warned about use of antivirals and the risk of mitochondrial toxicity.

Compensating by supporting mitochondria might be wise.
How do AV's disrupt Mito function?

Where did you hear/read that celebrex disrupts Mito function?

@Hip has said (I believe) that berberine disrupts or inhibits mito, so I guess you have to take breaks if using these drugs/supps...

thanks.
 

Learner

Active Member
How do AV's disrupt Mito function?

Where did you hear/read that celebrex disrupts Mito function?

@Hip has said (I believe) that berberine disrupts or inhibits mito, so I guess you have to take breaks if using these drugs/supps...

thanks.
The link I provided gives an overview of how the drugs can damage mitochondria, and lists many that do.

I was fortunate to attend the doctor tracks at last year's United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation conference. The researchers explained how mitochondria can be damaged in great detail. Apparently 75% of drugs damage mitochondria.

Dr. Naviaux was there. He stood up and gave an impassioned plea to the doctors to be more cognizant of the risks to their patients' mitochondria of the drugs they were prescribing, so as to not harm patients.

This is from the Q&A from his CFS paper:

Q7. How would you respond to Dr. Ronald Davis’s recent statement: “What is important to note is that in the absence of evidence of an active infection, it is plausible that the long-term antimicrobial treatments often used for ME/CFS patients are doing more harm than good.”

I am in complete agreement. Many antibiotics like tetracyclines, erythromycin, and the fluoroquinolones (eg, Cipro), and antivirals like acyclovir, fialuridine, AZT, and ddC also inhibit mitochondrial functions when used chronically (usually for more than about 3 weeks). Because mitochondria are descendants of free-living bacteria, their machinery for protein synthesis, RNA synthesis, and DNA replication are susceptible to many antibiotics, and for reasons unique to mitochondrial DNA synthesis, they are also sensitive to antivirals. Chronic use of these drugs can do more harm than good if there is no longer good evidence for an active infection. When mitochondrial functions are critically impacted by long-term use of certain antibiotics, a ripple effect in metabolism and gene expression is produced that can further impair energy production by mitochondria, converting an active cell danger response that occurs during active infection to a hypometabolic survival response.

In the field of mitochondrial medicine we are particularly sensitive to these issues of iatrogenic toxicity because some of the drugs that inhibit mitochondrial functions are very commonly used in patients without mitochondrial disease. For example, statins, valproate, and metformin can each produce problems in patients with pre-existing mitochondrial dysfunction. Most doctors do not think about how some antibiotics, antivirals, and other common drugs can inhibit mitochondrial function when they are used chronically. Our patients with mitochondrial disease are often the ones who educate their doctors about the mitochondrial dangers of many common drugs.

I know this is a sensitive area for many people struggling with CFS. It is important to emphasize that individual medical decisions must be governed by individual responses to treatment. Medical decisions should be informed by science, but cannot be based solely on abstract scientific concepts without also considering the clinical variables that are relevant to the care of each specific patient treated as an individual. Some patients do better on drugs that we would consider to be inhibitors of mitochondrial function. This may not have anything to do with the conventional pharmacologic classification of the drugs as antibiotics, antivirals, anticonvulsants, antidepressants, neuroleptics, or anticholesterol agents. Most drugs have metabolic effects beyond their primary action. Because the field of metabolomics is so new, these “pharmacometabolomic” effects of drugs have not yet been studied well.
While this new info is promising, being aware of unintended consequences and perhaps pairing it with some mitigating strategies might be helpful.

My mitochondria were damaged by carboplatin and paclitaxel, and I am trying very hard to repair them. It's not fun, and the doctor who gave me the drugs apologized to me as he sees how damaged I've been, but has no answers to fix me. Fortunately, my naturopath does, but it's been expensive and a Herculean task over the past 2 years. On the way, I've met patients damaged by antibiotics.

I think it's wise to be thoughtful.
 

ankaa

Well-Known Member
@Learner

How do you know that your mito is damaged or suboptimal? is there a test?

I wonder if Olive Leaf Extract damages mito? it's an excellent AV (more like valtrex than valcyte, which is much stronger)

Berberine is recommended instead of metformin, but has downsides, so I wouldn't take it all the time... I'm currently doing a SIBO protocol, so I'm taking it.... I was just thinking that I shouldn't take it more than 2 months at a time... I read the problems w it yesterday, but i'm too tired to dig it up right now! I felt very good this afternoon, which is promising, but I'm starting to really fade...

thanks for the info
 

Learner

Active Member
The drugs I took specifically target mitochondria, so that was a clue. And the fact that I could barely move for months, and taking NADH helped. And my body slurps up B12 in a huge way - my doctor thinks my mitochondrial membranes were shredded. This paper gives some insight:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964747/

Tests exist, but aren't perfect. Acumen Labs in the UK has a mitochondrial function profile you can do. Dr. Sarah Myhills website explains it.

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Mitochondrial_Function_Profile

I don't know about olive leaf. I think the thing to realize is that there are many things that cause mitochondrial damage. Dr. Naviaux laid them out in his cell danger response paper:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567724913002390

We need to avoid what we can, and then use mitigating strategies (nutrients) to help repair what gets damaged. Mitochondria live for around 6-8 weeks and get recycled. PQQ and exercise promote new mitochondria. Mito cocktails of nutrients have been developed to help.

We need to have enough ingredients hanging around to build new mitochondria and to support mitochondrial repair mechanisms. Paying attention to mitochondrial membranes is important, too - Garth Nicolson and Patricia Kane each promote lipid replenishment for membrane health.

What we don't want is to have mt DNA damaged, or have damage in over half of our mitochondria. There's a tipping point beyond which our prospects for survival diminish... cancer, Parkinson's, diabetes, etc. all have damaged mitochondria.

Getting toxins out of mitochondria is important, too, and something few doctors are even aware of. Besides being sequestered in fat, bones, and brains, toxins can be sequestered in mitochondrial, cause damage, and prevent ATP from being produced. Alpha lipoic acid (and the polymer form, called PolyMVA) can pull toxins out of mitochondria, which then must be metabolized and excreted.
 
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Remy

Administrator
The antiviral drugs that are known to cause mitochondrial toxicity are not the same ones that are commonly used in MECFS. Valacyclovir, acyclovir and famcivlovir all have a high safety profile evidenced by decades of follow up study.

While I agree with being cautious and not taking unnecessary medications, I also think it's important not to fear monger. While AVs have not been a cure, they have certainly returned a number of people back to functioning levels. I'd hate to see people who fit into Lerner's profile especially not give them a chance.
 

Learner

Active Member
Actually, acyclovir and valacyclovir are linked to mitochondrial dysfunction. Famcyclovir is linked to ototoxicity which is frequently due to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Fearmongering? I am just repeating the cautious words of Dr. Naviaux, who's an expert in mitochondria and cell danger response. He also says:

I know this is a sensitive area for many people struggling with CFS. It is important to emphasize that individual medical decisions must be governed by individual responses to treatment. Medical decisions should be informed by science, but cannot be based solely on abstract scientific concepts without also considering the clinical variables that are relevant to the care of each specific patient treated as an individual.
Safety profiles for the general population are different than for CFS patients, who may be may not be able to metabolize them as well and be more susceptible to damage.

I'm not saying don't take any drugs... I've taken acyclovir on occasion. It's just that we need to be thoughtful about what we put into our bodies and mitigate risks if warranted.
 

Learner

Active Member
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/elevate-your-energy/id633325097?mt=2&i=1000374869111

It's free, and it's an interview with Dr. Brady, creator of Fibro Fix. He claims great success curing people with fibromyalgia.

Has anyone here been treated by him or been cured by his methods? He has a book and a line of supplements.

Any thoughts or comments? I'm a little skeptical, though some of what he says makes sense
No takers?

I posted this thread because I've actually tried many of the things Dr. Brady discusses, which seem to have value. He says he cures people with fibromyalgia.

I don't agree with everything he says, but I believe much of the medical things he does can help CFS and fibromyalgia patients - I've seen them work with fellow patients...

Instead, this thread became a discussion about something else completely.

Are there any patients of Dr. Brady who can share their experiences, anyone who's tried his methods, or listened to the podcast? His practice is in CT.
 

Remy

Administrator
Actually, acyclovir and valacyclovir are linked to mitochondrial dysfunction. Famcyclovir is linked to ototoxicity which is frequently due to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Fearmongering? I am just repeating the cautious words of Dr. Naviaux, who's an expert in mitochondria and cell danger response. He also says:



Safety profiles for the general population are different than for CFS patients, who may be may not be able to metabolize them as well and be more susceptible to damage.

I'm not saying don't take any drugs... I've taken acyclovir on occasion. It's just that we need to be thoughtful about what we put into our bodies and mitigate risks if warranted.
I wrote this a while back and this is still my opinion, until someone provides some solid research links to reference materials stating otherwise. I will certainly be happy to reconsider as additional data is available.

So here is the deal for anyone who is still reading this thread and wants the real story in terms of Valtrex.

Acyclovir and it's prodrug Valtrex (valacyclovir) are nucleoside analogues, but they are not thymidine analogues, they are guanosine analogues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleoside_analogue

These antiviral drugs are very safe because they do not work in healthy cells, they only work in virally infected cells.

The drugs work by inhibiting a viral enzyme called thymidine kinase.

Now to make matters more complicated, there is also a cellular thymidine kinase present in healthy cells. But the cellular thymidine kinase are not able to phosphorylate the drugs which is a fancy way to say that the drugs have no effect in healthy cells.

However, in virally infected cells, the drug is able to effect cessation of viral replication.

A nice explanation is here:

Acyclovir undergoes monophosphorylation (adds one phosphate group) catalyzed by a virus-encoded enzyme thymidine kinase. The formation of the monophosphate can only take place in the presence of the virus, thus the drug accumulates as the monophosphate only in infected cells. It is then converted to a diphosphate and triphosphate by “normal” host enzymes in the cell. ACV-triphosphate inhibits the viral DNA polymerase from incorporating guanosine triphosphate and is itself incorporated. The DNA cannot grow further, add more groups and the chain terminates.

The mechanism of action is thus twofold: inhibition of viral DNA polymerase and chain termination of DNA once it has been incorporated into the nucleic acid.​
http://www.emedexpert.com/classes/herpes-medications.shtml

So (besides the fact that the article itself states that no conclusions can be drawn as to in vivo mitochondrial toxicity), Valtrex does not even fall into the class of drugs that are discussed as even *potentially* toxic to the mitochondria.

I actually think it would be interesting to study the antivirals and the mitochondria. But at this point, there is no reason at all to discontinue antivirals based on concerns over toxicity to the mitochondria. I have not found any evidence to support this position at this time.​
 

Remy

Administrator
He says he cures people with fibromyalgia.
That alone would probably give 99% of us pause. How do you "cure" something that isn't even well defined biologically?

But looking at his protocol and supplements, I would say that they are based on solid but common ingredients, are likely to cause many people sensitivity issues (as always happens with "everything and the kitchen sink" formulas, don't have enough of key ingredients to actually effect a therapeutic response, and are terribly, terribly overpriced for what they are.
 

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