'Should We All Be Drinking Hydrogen-Rich Water?'

Remy

Administrator
I love gadgets...so when I read about a bottle that makes hydrogen rich water through your USB cable, I got intrigued. The idea seems solid and the research that has been done makes it sound just about perfect for inflammatory diseases and diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

I've been drinking it for about a week now. I have a bottle and also some Capri-Sun like foil packages of hydrogen water I bought on Amazon.

Here's the Selfhacked piece...click on the link to go to the full text.


Also, here

When my boss and I first discussed doing an article about a special kind of water called hydrogen-rich water, she was skeptical. “I like real food grown in the earth, not fake stuff concocted in a lab—so why would I want anyone tampering with my water?” she asked.

Still, the purported health benefits of hydrogen-rich water—which are said to stem primarily from protection against cell-damaging free radicals—merited further investigation. That’s why I contacted Atsunori Nakao, MD, PhD, a research associate professor of surgery at the University of Pittsburgh, who has conducted studies on the subject. He described research that, while preliminary, is nonetheless intriguing.

How hydrogen works: You no doubt recall that a molecule of water, or H2O, consists of one atom of oxygen bound to two atoms of hydrogen. In our bodies, hydrogen functions as an antioxidant, helping to prevent cell damage and inflammation, protect DNA and combat out-of-control cell growth.

The problem is that the hydrogen in water is not very accessible to the cells in our bodies. That’s because “free” hydrogen (hydrogen molecules not bound to other molecules) is relatively rare and, being a light gas, evaporates quickly, Dr. Nakao said. The point of hydrogen-enriched water is to provide hydrogen that is easier for our cells to use. Hydrogen-rich water is created through a simple chemical reaction—when a ceramic stick containing metallic magnesium is placed in a bottle of plain water, the magnesium elicits a reaction that constantly generates hydrogen.

Research on the health benefits of hydrogen-rich water is limited and there is scant data on long-term effects. However, pilot studies on humans suggest that consuming hydrogen-rich water may help…

Prevent metabolic syndrome. A disorder characterized by a constellation of symptoms (including obesity, insulin resistance, high cholesterol and hypertension), metabolic syndrome is associated with an increased risk for cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. Dr. Nakao and colleagues conducted a study of 20 patients at risk for metabolic syndrome, instructing them to drink about two quarts of hydrogen-rich water per day for eight weeks. Blood tests were done at the start, middle and end of the study period. Results: After eight weeks, participants showed, on average, a 39% increase in blood levels of antioxidant enzymes, 8% increase in blood levels of HDL “good” cholesterol and 13% decrease in total cholesterol—levels of improvement that significantly lowered their risk for metabolic syndrome.

Improve health for diabetes and prediabetes patients. A Japanese study involved 36 patients with either type 2 diabetes or impaired glucose tolerance (a prediabetic condition in which blood glucose levels are higher than normal). Some patients drank about 30 ounces of hydrogen-rich water daily for eight weeks… the rest drank the same amount of plain water. Results:Hydrogen-rich water consumption was associated with significant decreases in LDL “bad” cholesterol and urinary markers of oxidative stress as well as improved glucose metabolism… in two-thirds of prediabetes patients, oral glucose tolerance test results returned to normal. Among plain water drinkers, there were no significant changes.

Ease the negative side effects of radiation treatment for cancer. In a 2011 study, Dr. Nakao’s team looked at 49 liver cancer patients undergoing radiation, a treatment that often increases fatigue and negatively affects quality of life. Participants who drank about two quarts of hydrogen-rich water daily for six weeks showed lower blood levels of oxidative markers (by-products of cell injury caused by free radicals) and reported higher quality of life than participants who drank tap water. Hydrogen-rich water did not compromise radiation’s therapeutic antitumor effects, Dr. Nakao noted.

In addition, animal studies show that consumption of hydrogen-rich water may help reduce the risk for atherosclerosis… prevent stress-induced declines in learning and memory… slow the progression of Parkinson’s disease… prevent or ease colitis… reduce allergic reactions… improve kidney function in kidney transplant patients… and lessen kidney toxicity and other side effects of the chemotherapy drug cisplatin.
But is it safe? Some people who drink hydrogen-rich water report loose stools, mild heartburn and/or headaches. Because excess magnesium can be dangerous, I asked Dr. Nakao whether there were any side effects associated with the increased intake of magnesium from the ceramic stick used to create the hydrogen-rich water. He said that any effects would be negligible because the amount of magnesium in a normal daily diet is almost 800 times more than what’s in hydrogen-rich water. (Like other over-the-counter magnesium products, magnesium water sticks do not require FDA approval.) “I have been drinking hydrogen-rich water myself for years,” Dr. Nakao added. “It is not an overstatement to say that hydrogen’s impact on therapeutic and preventive medicine could be enormous in the future.”

If you are considering giving hydrogen-rich water a try: Talk to your doctor about this intriguing research. While Dr. Nakao declined to recommend any particular brand, he confirmed that the magnesium sticks used to create hydrogen-rich water are sold online for about $80 per stick at various sites. Resources include www.LivingWaterUSA.com and www.HydrogenWaterStick.com. How does hydrogen-rich water taste? Like regular water.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
Sounds like a good idea. How expensive is the gadget?
I love gadgets...so when I read about a bottle that makes hydrogen rich water through your USB cable, I got intrigued. The idea seems solid and the research that has been done makes it sound just about perfect for inflammatory diseases and diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

I've been drinking it for about a week now. I have a bottle and also some Capri-Sun like foil packages of hydrogen water I bought on Amazon.

Here's the Selfhacked piece...click on the link to go to the full text.


Also, here
 

Veet

Well-Known Member
I just saw the antioxidant claim. Looks like I'm in. I've been fighting oxidative stress for the last 2 years, especially searching for non-food sources, so I can maintain my weight. If this is effective, it's really cheap. "500ml = 10 carrots"...carrots have been a big part of my strategy. This sounds great. Here's another brand, Korean: http://www.hydrogenwater-stick.com/...whoops, out of stock until further notice.

Here's another, several models. http://www.tomtop.com/search/water-ionizer.html

OK, there are lot's of them. @Remy, as far as you know, is anything labelled alkalinizing water the same deal?
 
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Remy

Administrator
. @Remy, as far as you know, is anything labelled alkalinizing water the same deal?
It isn't. This will be a clumsy explanation though because I don't understand it perfectly myself...

pH is a measure of hydrogen ion concentration (H+). At neutral pH 7, H+ ions are perfectly balanced by OH- ions. Anything above 7 is alkaline and anything below is acidic.

Hydrogen water is when you add molecular hydrogen gas (H2) to the water. This apparently turns it slightly alkaline but depends on where you started with your water.

So they aren't the same thing at all though you will often find water being advertised as both Hydrogen Enriched and Alkaline.

You didn't ask this, but I personally don't think too much about alkaline water. It's near next to impossible to change the body's blood pH by drinking anything...for excellent reason because the body works within a really specific pH window. It would be catastrophic if everything we ate or drank was able to influence that balance to any great degree.

Hydrogen water on the other hand has lots of benefits detailed in the quotes above.

Hope that helps!
 

cherubim

Well-Known Member
This looks like a good bet - it was found in studies to reduce oxidative stress on PubMed. I checked out models on Ebay and found a stick you put in the water vs those that plug in. It states you should drink it within 6 minutes of making. Did anyone try a specific type that has worked well for them?

I am trying to alkalize, and am unsure if you're saying this alkalizes your water?
 

Veet

Well-Known Member
@cherubim Here's from anAmazon review of hydrogen water sticks. First review, very extensive:
According to a scientific study, drinking hydrogen rich water for 8 weeks resulted in a 39% increase in the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD) and a 43% decrease in thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) in urine (TBARS are a measure of the oxidized and damaged fats in your body)
I'm currently weighing up sticks versus jug/bottle. I'm unclear if there are parts in the jug that wear out or need replacement, compared to monthly cleaning of sticks.

cort has an amazon link to credit hr.
 

cherubim

Well-Known Member
Thank you - that's just what I was looking for - raising SOD. I stopped taking the SOD made with gliadin, because I was concerned I was defeating the purpose, and might get oxidative stress from being allergic to the gliadin. I was trying to research PubMed on how to raise catalase, but had to wade through so much information I had to stop. I looked into the Nrf2 activators, because they are supposed to generate your body's own antioxidant system. I'm taking sulforaphane from Swansons - very cheap. I began one I bought on Amazon, but then grew concerned I might be allergic to one of the ingredients, which would initiate oxidative stress, so water should be benign and would be a safe option.

The sticks are cheap on eBay, around $3 - so t's very affordable. I don't understand how each works, the plug-ins vs the sticks, and if one is better than another. For some reason, I thought the plug-ins might work better, but I don't have any info to base it on. I began research on it yesterday. I'm going to get back to researching it to determine which one to go with. Let me know which one you decide to go with? If the sticks work just as well, they would be easier than cleaning the jug, because you're not allowed to use soap on them. I'm to the point of not wanting to take care of anything but myself at this point, so I'd want the simplest way to get the hydrogen water, but at the same time, getting the antioxidant benefit.

I read a research study, where a pharmaceutical Nrf2 activator was used, with good benefit - better than the natural ones - but searched and could not find any pharmaceutical Nrf2's that have been made. I hope if someone finds this, they post it. That way it would raise all 3 of the body's antioxidant systems - glutathione, catalase, and sod. But if I can buy an inexpensive unit to produce sod I'll do it. SOD is crucial.

I read on Mercola's site, that he recommends multiple antioxidants, because they have different actions in the body. I bought purple defense (I got Swanson's brand - cheaper). I was thinking of trying astanthaxin. Do you take different antioxidants or just do the carrots? I have to start eating carrots, because they're more natural than a pill, and they'll heal any leaky gut issues as well as providing antioxidants.

I never heard of tbars. I was concerned about damaged fats, because I take omega 3 fish oil for inflammation, and then came across info that are sometimes damaged fats. I never had a doctor test my fats using tbars or if it's something you can request. I'd like to know if others take omega 3's and if they are concerned about them causing oxidative stress.
 
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Veet

Well-Known Member
The sticks are cheap on eBay, around $3 - so t's very affordable. I don't understand how each works, the plug-ins vs the sticks, and if one is better than another. For some reason, I thought the plug-ins might work better, but I don't have any info to base it on.
Initially I thought the plug-in would be better...it's plug-in:D. But as I lay in bed thinking about it, it seems the stick was the first invention. I'm not travelling or working, so a stick would be just fine for what I need. So now I'm leaning more to the stick.

I like this mug, but it holds 380ml (compared to the mug I now use, 500ml) and costs $155! I think I just like it cause it looks :cool:. It has a $20 replacement ionizer stick, the only one of the devices I've seen list a replacement part. This seller has the mug + 2 versions of sticks, a single one for $70 and a set of 4 for $72. Who knows what the difference is? I've not read any independent reviews, only those on Amazon.

Let's keep this research/conversation going. I'm very excited to find a new antioxidant.


I started my antioxidant quest once I became acquainted w/ Martin Pall's Nitric Oxide theory. You can find his vid here. The last 20 minutes has slides listing his suggested antioxidant strategies. First for me was resveratrol. Eventually I understood I needed Japanese knotweed, not anything w/ red wine, due to histamines. I've also used ALCAR at times, but it's not my body's preference.

Green tea remains one of my continuing sources of antiox, AM/PM. Also coffee, but I think that's more about raising my BP. Acai, first as capsules, later as bulk powder was great. Until I discovered that it's apparently been contributing histamines. I've now switched to maqui berries, also as ground berry powder. I switched to the form of E recommended by Pall, gamma E. (Unique E from iherb).

My nut/seed mix was another source, but I'm now deconstructing it, looking for sources of my ongoing histamine troubles. Also, my acupuncturist cautioned me about rancid oils, particularly in the brazil nuts I'd been using for extra se. It now seems that I may have been creating a vicious cycle w/ my nut, creating ox stress, and thus an endless craving for more antioxidants. :rolleyes:

I'm using Nutrasea fish oil. I believe it's a good brand. My body only wants 1/2 cap daily of this extra strength EPA.

I also tried bilberry and another capsule berry, can't remember the name. My body prefers some of these berry superfoods, it seems.
I also tried a SOD product, french melon. It didn't seem to do anything. cheers.
 

cherubim

Well-Known Member
I had to shake my head when you said "as I lay in bed...not traveling or working..." You just described my life at this point. My computer is my connection to the world.

I can't understand how they can charge $69 for a stick on Amazon, and the same (alleged) sticks on eBay are $3 ? I wonder if they do the same thing. I'll have to look more into it - if I find the sticks will work, I'll buy them on eBay. It would be an easy way to raise SOD. It will work for me because I drink a lot of water, and I'd use it multiple times during the day. Please post if you find which one is more effective.

I too am on a quest to find good antioxidants. I can't believe you're following the NO/ONOO protocol. I have been doing NO therapies as well. I've been taking arginine/ citrulline for NO. I'm doing it due to information I obtained from a Professor, but I'll look further into Martin Pall's information.

I take Reservage ubiquinol + resveratrol every day - that's interesting - I'm trying to cut down on any histamine reactions, and didn't know resveratrol caused them. I had read certain probiotic strains cause them, so I've been researching a lot - although I'm constantly changing direction with research. I didn't know there was a difference between resveratrol and knotweed - I thought they were the same thing. I came across information from a doctor's website online about a new micro-resveratrol that's supposed to be more effectively absorbed. It's very expensive though. I'll post it when I find it again. I'm pretty desperate to get well, but you never know if someone is claiming a product works to get you to buy it. It's a shame that you have to weed through all the "claims" extensively to get to the truth. Truth is in short supply these days. We live in the era of lies.

I've never heard of ALCAR. I can't take green tea - as much as I wanted to, my body won't accept it. I may shift at some point and can take it, because it's got good antioxidant properties. I read that Matcha tea is really good, so I got it to make tea out of it. I may try it again to see if I can tolerate it.

If you look up Nrf2 activators on Amazon, there is an antioxidant product with coffee berry in it. I thought of getting it, when I finish the antioxidants I have. It has a high ORAC value. So Acai contributes to histamine too? Glad I found that out. I've been taking pomegranate and goji berry. On another post at HealthRising I read a post that pomegranate helps mitochondria, so I don't know if it's a specific brand. I'm also taking Red Lightning - a blend of super fruits.

I am taking A Grace Unique E too! I take the tocotrionols in the morning, and the tocopherols at dinner. I try to wait until Vitacost runs a sale. Vitamin E is good for circulation and many other things.

I hope you share more of what you learn about histamine. I've been taking minocycline, gastrocom, and ibudilast to shut the cytokine/ glial activation down. I'm looking to shut Substance P and NK1 down and have been researching it. I read something about nuts having rancid oils as well. I like mixed nuts, but you don't know what you're getting now. I still eat roasted almonds - I hope they're ok. I haven't heard of Nutrasea. I've been taking Wholemega - because it has the full range of omegas in it. I hope it's ok because I just read that fish oil can be rancid. I watched a documentary on tv - may have been 20/20 about rancid oils in fish oil. They ripped up the supplement industry, saying that many of the products they tested had rice powder in them, instead of what they claimed. Apparently they're unregulated. It's so hard to navigate which products/ company you trust. In today's society, even the most "respectable" people/ companies turn out to be frauds.

I also eat a lot of berries. I use frozen raspberries and blackberries on my oatmeal every morning. I tried this great powdered berry blend called 'Nutrigenomic Berry Blend' on Vitacost. It's dried powder of multiple berries, and you mix it in water or other beverage. It's expensive though, so I wait until there is a 20% off sale on Vitacost. I was going to take the SOD from french melon too, but I read it doesn't make it past the digestive tract. Other researchers from France, I believe, found it works. So I was still researching that.

Here is what I cam across for activating Nrf2. I can't believe hydrogen is on the list. I got this off of various websites I was researching Nrf2 on. I am still trying to find the pharmaceutical Nrf2 activator researchers used, but I can't. It is supposedly much more potent. Please post it if you come across it in your online travels. It should solve oxidative stress issues:

Exercise will activate the Nrf2 pathway. Intermittent fasting will also cause activation of Nrf2 and survival genes. Many foods cause Nrf2 activation, such as blueberries, tea, coffee, broccoli, cabbage, wasabi, Brussels sprouts and onions. A number of spices and herbs activate Nrf2, including milk thistle, bacopa, ashwaganda, green tea, turmeric, black pepper.

Top Ways to Increase Nrf2
Other Ways to Activate Nrf2
I really want to find the pharmaceutical one, because it is allegedly much more effective. If you or anyone happens to find it, please post it.
 

Veet

Well-Known Member
I didn't know there was a difference between resveratrol and knotweed - I thought they were the same thin
They are both resveratrol. But often resveratrol comes from grapes, red wine. Red wine = histamines. I ended up finding knotweed alone from an ebay vendor.
The NOW product, for example, contains both:
Polygonum cuspidatum Extract (Rhizome)
(50% Natural Trans-Resveratrol - 200 mg) 400 mg *
Red Wine Extract (Alcohol-Free)
(Vitis vinifera) (Fruit) (Standardized for Polyphenols) 10 mg​

ALCAR = Acetyl l-carnitine. surprising to find it as an antioxidant. One of the things mentioned in Pall's last 20" on that vid. Unfortunately his own website no longer exists. This site might be the most complete presentation I've found in writing. I'm not sure if acai comes up on any histamine lists. I'm just in the midst of eliminating anything that might be a problem at present.

I have no understanding of Nrf2. Thanks for all you've listed here, I'll look more closely at it. I see a lot of familiar substances in that list.

I thought of matcha tea, I'm pretty sure it's expensive. I've settled on organic sencha.

I'll write to the vendor who's selling both sticks and the cup, ask about the difference. Will also do a wider search, if I find the correct phrase.
...ADD: No, they're listed on the same page, but 3 different vendors, so no comparison from any of them. Will have to look further.

Some of my collected notes, from when I was beginning to understand antioxidants.
http://sirtuins.info/
We are gearing up to discuss of Resveratrol dietary supplement capsules. What is the relation between Resveratrol dietary supplement capsules and Sirtuins? What is Resveratrol then? Studies do state categorically that Resveratrol happens to be a polyphenol antioxidant and has its roots in grapes, peanuts, berries and cocoa beans.

It is worthwhile to mention that the majority of the resveratrol dietary supplements that are made today hail from the Japanese knotweed. There is hardly any doubt of their efficaciousness as they have been used in Japan and China for several decades in the form of a treatment for a wide range of conditions. What are these conditions? Well, even though there are lots, as stated by scientists, some of them happen to be heart and liver diseases, inflammation, lethargy, infections and for weight loss.
http://www.longevinex.com/supplementfacts.php
Don’t waste your money on plain resveratrol...You’d have to spend $10,000 to activate same # of longevity genes that Longevinex activagtes in $12 weeks. knotweed, rice bran, D3...)
Acting on Sirt1
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/looking-for-source-for-japanese-knotweed.31457/#post-543810 Re knotweed
What makes Knotweed so valuable when it comes to treating Lyme disease is that it not only inhibits the spirochetes, it is also markedly anti-inflammatory, reducing joint pain, swelling and fever. The anti-inflammatory effect helps to regulate the immune system and prevents it from being over burdened; its modulating effect makes it useful for many autoimmune ailments. Knotweed supports the central nervous system and protects the heart, making it especially valuable in the treatment of Lyme-related carditis. Lyme disease affects more than the joints; symptoms can range from pronounced fatigue, fever and aches to foggy thinking, memory lapses, muscular spasms, rashes and vision problems. The spirochetes that cause Lyme make a meal of collagen tissue, and their favorite restaurants include your joints, skin, eyes and brain. Knotweed has a strong ability to protect those tender areas, stimulating microcirculation and directing other herbs to otherwise difficult to treat regions of the body.

The constituents in Knotweed are also able to cross the blood brain barrier (BBB), protecting delicate cerebral tissue and harmonizing blood flow. Regular supplementation of Polygonum cuspidatum during or after an active infection will help sharpen mental function and relieve pain throughout the body. During effective treatment of Lyme disease, patients frequently experience what is known as a Herxheimer reaction. A “Herx” response is a healing crisis of exacerbated overall symptoms; fevers spike, joint pain becomes more pronounced, fatigue may increase –basically the patient feels absolutely awful.

The reason for the aggravated symptoms is a massive die-off of the pathogenic spirochetes creating a high volume of toxicity in the blood. Believe it or not, this is a good sign:...

...I have had to come off it having taken 9 capsules daily for 4 months. Turns out it is a potent vasodilator and therefore it has given me horrendous migraines. Cats Claw is the same so the 2 together made me feel suicidal.

Just a warning that Japanese knotweed contains emodin, which can cause vomiting and other digestive problems. I refer to it http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/who-uses-resveratrol-and-where-do-you-buy-it-from.27768/page-2#post-486053, and there are other posts mentioning it too.
http://www.ganoderma-for-health.com/superoxide-dismutase.html
Superoxide Dismutase or SOD is an important active component in Ganoderma Lucidum herb. = reishi
HOWEVER,
http://examine.com/supplements/Ganoderma+lucidum/
Ganoderma lucidum has anti-oxidative effects when supplemented. It also has a therapeutic effect on insulin resistance, reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and can help treat a variety of conditions associated with metabolic syndrome.
The lingzi mushroom is well known for its anti-cancer effects. It is able to activate natural killer cells, increasing their activity and the body’s ability to fight tumors. Supplementing Ganoderma lucidum reduces the chances of metastasis, which is when cancer spreads to another part of the body.
Ganoderma lucidum has a variety of mechanisms, but they are focused on moderating the immune system. The lingzi mushroom is able to reduce immune system activity when the system is overstimulated, and bolster the immune system when it is weakened. In general, Ganoderma lucidum increases the amount of active immune system cells.
Though further research is needed to confirm these effects, Ganoderma lucidum shows promise for a wide variety of cancer-related therapies. It has been shown to be an effective adjunct therapy, which means it improves health when taken alongside other medications, for breast cancer, hepatitis, fatigue syndrome, and prostate cancer. There are not many promising supplements with anti-cancer properties available over-the-counter but Ganoderma lucidum appears to be one of them.
...I read on Examine.com that Reishi is an immunostimulator. OTOH users’ reviews state that it is a modulator. Can anyone here please clarify that?
 

Veet

Well-Known Member
My initial search for comparing H2 sticks vs jug: Youtube, Don't Buy H2 sticks (I've only watched a couple minutes)

According to the following, a stick would be fine for me, since I already filter my water.
http://www.waterionizerexpert.com/blogs/news/77822529-alkaline-water-filter-pitchers-vs-hydrogen-sticks

You can get a good alkaline filter pitcher, such as the Pitcher of LIFE, for less than $50. Hydrogen sticks are generally more expensive, starting around $65. But the total cost of using a hydrogen stick can be much higher: Since hydrogen sticks don’t filter water, you either have to filter it yourself, or buy bottled water. Even if you buy an inexpensive filter pitcher, when you add the cost of the filter pitcher to that of the hydrogen stick, it will cost you at least twice as much as an alkaline filter pitcher will.Bottom Line: Hydrogen sticks will cost you about twice as much as alkaline water filter pitchers will when you factor in the cost of filtering your water. Using bottled water would make the cost of using a hydrogen stick even higher.
Here's a Dr who's been researching H2, haven't listened yet: https://www.alkalinewaterplus.com/blog/

http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/ionized-water/orp-ph-and-hydrogen/
What is the best way to get free hydrogen to the places in your body that matter the most? By that I mean into the mitochondria in your cells and to the potentially damaging free oxygen that exists in your body. The answer is ionized water because it is absorbed quickly and handled efficiently by your body. The same process can also be achieved by means of consuming an alkaline diet, which also has additional benefits, but drinking ionized water full of free hydrogen is fast and easy.
What is the best ionized water to drink to help as an antioxidant and in chemiosmosis? You can achieve the same beneficial results from ionized water produced by electrolysis or by natural means via hydrogen producing products such as antioxidant filters or hydrogen sticks.
The makers of hydrogen sticks take the position that water produced by electric water ionizers is bad for you. They lobbied Dr. Mercola for three years about the perils of using electric water ionizers before Mercola spoke out against the use of electric water ionizers last fall. I’m not convinced at all that the position of the hydrogen stick people is correct as the water has had an incredibly positive effect on my life over the years without any negative side effects. The fact that Dr. Mercola supports their position doesn’t impress me as he clearly didn’t do his homework on the issue.
I’m now reasonably certain that the water produced from antioxidant filters will provide all the same health benefits as electric water ionizers for a fraction of the price. In addition, the antioxidant filters are far superior filters to the filters provided in electric water ionizers as they remove fluoride, chloramines, THMs, VOCs, lead, mercury and a lot more on top of the sediment and chlorine that the filters in electric water ionizers remove.
I much prefer antioxidant filters to hydrogen sticks for home use for several reasons. Antioxidant filters are fast and convenient, they are capable of producing a much stronger output if the user desires a range of outputs, and they remove contaminants from the source water. The hydrogen sticks do provide a very useful function for those wanting access to effective ionized water when they are on the go. The sticks are extremely portable and they continually produce hydrogen which is useful when water is being jostled around.
Here's a study on athletes, refers to using sticks. http://medicalgasresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2045-9912-2-12

 

cherubim

Well-Known Member
I was researching Resveratrol, and came across the following: http://www.resveratrolnews.com/the-absurdities-of-marketing-resveratrol/163/

When I read that a lab tested many of the supplements, they came up lower than what was stated on the bottle - even in a brand I respected, it was frustrating. That was in accordance with the show I just watched that nothing but rice powder was found in some supplements due to the unregulated supplement industry. I think they should be subject to testing by private labs. So getting well is complicated by the fact that you don't know if the supplements you're buying are what is really in them. It's a gamble - but I still use them extensively.

Do you notice a worsening of your symptoms in the rain by any chance? It's raining here today and I feel worse. Someone told me all your tissues swell in the rain.

I'm going to finish what's left in the Resveratrol bottle and discontinue that. I take Acetyl-carnitine - and I was also surprised it has antioxidant effects. The same with glycine.

I couldn't access the Pall information on that link. I can try a search on Duckduckgo.

I came across the Nrf2 activators while researching, and I thought if I could find a way to get my own antioxidant system to step up, it would stop the oxidative stress. I'm doing some of the ones listed, but read a research paper where they tested several natural activators and a pharmaceutical one, and the pharmaceutical one got results. The natural ones got 'mild' results. So I searched but could not locate a pharmaceutical Nrf2 activator. I hope someone will post it if they find one. The matcha powder wasn't too expensive - I got the vita cost brand. You only use a little, and if you buy it on a sale you can save. I can't take it - right now anyway.

I'm going to order the Longinevix. Microcirculation is what I'm looking for - I can't believe it's a vasodilator! That's why I'm doing NO donors - arginine/ citrulline.

I tried mushroom complexes before and couldn't tolerate them, so I need to get SOD another way. The hydrogen water sounds good - because water is innocuous. I'll look for the response you get from the manufacturers. It's good to exchange information - you get multiplied results. I'll continue posting anything that may be helpful.
 

cherubim

Well-Known Member
D
They are both resveratrol. But often resveratrol comes from grapes, red wine. Red wine = histamines. I ended up finding knotweed alone from an ebay vendor.
The NOW product, for example, contains both:
Polygonum cuspidatum Extract (Rhizome)
(50% Natural Trans-Resveratrol - 200 mg) 400 mg *
Red Wine Extract (Alcohol-Free)
(Vitis vinifera) (Fruit) (Standardized for Polyphenols) 10 mg​

ALCAR = Acetyl l-carnitine. surprising to find it as an antioxidant. One of the things mentioned in Pall's last 20" on that vid. Unfortunately his own website no longer exists. This site might be the most complete presentation I've found in writing. I'm not sure if acai comes up on any histamine lists. I'm just in the midst of eliminating anything that might be a problem at present.

I have no understanding of Nrf2. Thanks for all you've listed here, I'll look more closely at it. I see a lot of familiar substances in that list.

I thought of matcha tea, I'm pretty sure it's expensive. I've settled on organic sencha.

I'll write to the vendor who's selling both sticks and the cup, ask about the difference. Will also do a wider search, if I find the correct phrase.
...ADD: No, they're listed on the same page, but 3 different vendors, so no comparison from any of them. Will have to look further.

Some of my collected notes, from when I was beginning to understand antioxidants.





HOWEVER,
I looked for the Longinetix, but then re-read your post - you didn't get the Longinetix brand? I looked on eBay and Amazon and it's not on there.
 

Hip

Well-Known Member
I while ago I read an interesting thread on longecity.org about hydrogen water (= water with the H2 hydrogen gas molecule dissolved in it).

In this post on that thread, there is a video detailing a beer bottle high pressure method of making high potency hydrogen water. This is done by reacting magnesium metal with malic acid inside a closed beer bottle, which produces hydrogen gas. The bottle is closed to increase the pressure, which then dissolves more hydrogen into the water.

With this method, you get concentrations of H2 in the water of up to 3.5 ppm, measured with the methylene blue drops method of determining H2 concentration (methylene blue method here and here).



A great resource on hydrogen water is the Molecular Hydrogen Foundation (MHF).

The MHF has a useful page comparing the various methods of producing hydrogen rich water.

They reckon that electrolysis machines produce a concentration of 0.05 ppm to over 2.5 ppm of dissolved H2 in the water (though typically the concentration is 0.1 to 0.7 ppm).

Putting magnesium metal into water produces 1.6 ppm.

And the magnesium sticks, magnesium tablets, and or cartridge-type devices produce 2 to 4 ppm.


So it looks like magnesium sticks and magnesium tablets will produce hydrogen rich water that has 3 or 4 times more H2 molecules than the hydrogen water produced by electrolysis machines.

I am a bit confused about the cost of hydrogen rich water sticks: some you can buy for around $5, others like the Dr Hidemitsu Hayashi Stick cost as much as $70.

The ones that cost around $5 look like this (but are they really hydrogen rich water sticks?):
Hydrogen Water Stick.png

The MHF say some fascinating things about water ionizers (water alkalizer machines), which produce electrolyzed reduced water (ERW):
It is now well-recognized that the primary agent responsible for the benefits is attributed to the dissolved molecular hydrogen gas. One leading ERW researcher from Kyushu University tested all the properties of ERW and the only one that exerted a therapeutic effect was the molecular hydrogen.
So the health benefits of water ionizers actually comes from the hydrogen water these machines produce, rather than the change in pH they produce (it is only in recent years that this has come to light).



This paper is interesting: it found that hydrogen water induces neuroprotective effects in Parkinson's disease via stimulating ghrelin secretion.
 
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