'Should We All Be Drinking Hydrogen-Rich Water?'

[cherubim]

That's either a little confusing, or it could be I'm not awake yet. He speaks of 'antioxidant water' - is he referring to the water treated with the sticks or electric?

I already filter my water, so I would not have a problem using the sticks. The only benefit would be if the grid goes down, and you have an alternate means of filtering your water.

 

[cherubim]

I while ago I read an interesting thread on longecity.org about hydrogen water (= water with the H2 hydrogen gas molecule dissolved in it).

In this post on that thread, there is a video detailing a beer bottle high pressure method of making high potency hydrogen water. This is done by reacting magnesium metal with malic acid inside a closed beer bottle, which produces hydrogen gas. The bottle is closed to increase the pressure, which then dissolves more hydrogen into the water.

With this method, you get concentrations of H2 in the water of up to 3.5 ppm, measured with the methylene blue drops method of determining H2 concentration (methylene blue method here and here).



A great resource on hydrogen water is the Molecular Hydrogen Foundation (MHF).

The MHF has a useful page comparing the various methods of producing hydrogen rich water.

They reckon that electrolysis machines produce a concentration of 0.05 ppm to over 2.5 ppm of dissolved H2 in the water (though typically the concentration is 0.1 to 0.7 ppm).

Putting magnesium metal into water produces 1.6 ppm.

And the magnesium sticks, magnesium tablets, and or cartridge-type devices produce 2 to 4 ppm.


So it looks like magnesium sticks and magnesium tablets will produce hydrogen rich water that has 3 or 4 times more H2 molecules than the hydrogen water produced by electrolysis machines.

I am a bit confused about the cost of hydrogen rich water sticks: some you can buy for around $5, others like the Dr Hidemitsu Hayashi Stick cost as much as $70.

The ones that cost around $5 look like this (but are they really hydrogen rich water sticks?):

View attachment 2028​

The MHF say some fascinating about water ionizers (water alkalizer machines), which produce electrolyzed reduced water (ERW):


So the health benefits of water ionizers actually comes from the hydrogen water these machines produce, rather than the change in pH they produce (it is only in recent years that this has come to light).



This paper is interesting: it found that hydrogen water induces neuroprotective effects in Parkinson's disease via stimulating ghrelin secretion.

I wouldn't mind trying that method - I'd use a steel water bottle though - I'd be concerned about putting boiling water in glass then the freezer - it would crack the bottle. I'm looking for easy things. It worked for his inflammation which would be great.

So the sticks appear to be better then. I too was confused about the extreme cost difference in the sticks - if there was any difference in quality. Maybe it's just because the sellers want to make a lot of money - I haven't figured it out yet though.

I think I'll research a little longer and then spring for the $3 sticks on eBay.

 

[cherubim]

Here's more info on micronized resveratrol: http://www.prweb.com/releases/Resvertrol/Micronized_Resveratrol/prweb1200624.htm

It's hard to determine if it's a marketing ploy or something that really works. Supposedly not much resveratrol you take is available to the body. I wonder if they sell micronized knotweed.

 

[Remy]

The MHF says that it expects hydrogen water to take off in 2o17. I wonder where we buy stock!

Very interesting links, @Hip!

 

[Hip]

That's either a little confusing, or it could be I'm not awake yet. He speaks of 'antioxidant water' - is he referring to the water treated with the sticks or electric?

Are you referring to the $5 sticks I mentioned and pictured above, that are sold on eBay under the title "Alkaline Water Stick PH Alkalizer Ionizer Hydrogen Minerals Wand Purifier Filter"?

I think these $5 sticks may make hydrogen water, but they look like an all singing all dancing product that does several things — according to the eBay blurb, they: alkalize the water, add they trace minerals (microelements) to the water, and possibly add colloidal silver to the water (since it mentions something about "nano silver powder")?

It does not explicitly say in the eBay blurb that it produces hydrogen water; it just has the word hydrogen in the product title.

If you were going to buy hydrogen water stick, I guess the safer option would be the Dr Hayashi product, as this is specifically advertised as a stick to make hydrogen rich water.

It says here:

The Hydrogen Rich Water Stick was developed by Japanese Cardiovascular Surgeon, Dr. H. Hayashi to release dissolved hydrogen and magnesium into drinking water.

Dr. Hayashi recommends that adults over the age of 35 use 2 Hydrogen Rich Water sticks, and those with more serious health conditions that need to be addressed use up to three sticks.

The "water stick" is dropped into a 1 liter bottle of water. After about 20 minutes the hydrogen has been released and the water is "active." It is important to keep the stick covered with water after it has been used. You can do this by replenishing the water in your bottle as you pour a glass for drinking.

According to this webpage, the Dr Hayashi stick produces a H2 concentration of 0.4 to 1.5 ppm. And the webpage says:

The stick is composed of magnesium (99.9% pure) and far-infrared ceramic housed in a porous resin. A reaction between the magnesium and the water in the presence of far-infrared rays causes the production of hydrogen

If you want to try to create your own stick, you can buy 99.9% or 99.99% pure magnesium rods on eBay for around $2 each. I bought a couple of such rods (10 cm long, 2 cm wide) a few months ago. When you put these magnesium rods into tap water, very tiny bubbles of H2 do appear on the surface of the rod, but the bubbling is so very slow that I cannot imagine it is going to dissolve much H2 into the water. The reaction formula is:

Magnesium + Water —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Hydroxide

Mg + H2O —> H2 + Mg(OH)2

However, when I add some malic acid to my water with the magnesium rod in it, then you do suddenly get a lot of bubbles of H2 gas being produced, and a much more vigorous reaction. But this is a different chemical reaction: it's now a reaction between magnesium and malic acid:

Magnesium + Malic Acid —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Malate

Mg + C4H6O5 —> H2 + MgC4H4O5


What I can't understand is how the Dr Hayashi stick apparently produces such a vigorous reaction between the magnesium and ordinary water. The Hayashi stick I don't think uses any acids, since you just place it in water. You only need to leave the Hayashi stick in water for 20 minutes to prepare your H2 water. I am guessing the Hayashi stick must have some sort of catalyst to make magnesium's reaction with water faster.

The Hayashi stick blurb I quoted above says: "A reaction between the magnesium and the water in the presence of far-infrared rays causes the production of hydrogen". So they are saying that far infrared light is the catalyst. But this sounds like a pseudoscientific marketing phrase.


Anyway, it is possible to react your $2 magnesium rod with malic acid, citric acid or acetic acid (vinegar), as that is how the guy in the video I mentioned earlier makes his 3.5 ppm hydrogen rich water.

By the way, at time code 13:25 in that video, it shows you how he uses the methylene blue drops to accurately measure the H2 ppm concentration in his hydrogen water.

Apparently, the digital ORP meters that you see some people use to gauge the strength of their hydrogen water are not an accurate way to determine H2 concentration, according to the MHF.

 

[Remy]

Are you referring to the $5 sticks I mentioned and pictured above, that are sold on eBay under the title "Alkaline Water Stick PH Alkalizer Ionizer Hydrogen Minerals Wand Purifier Filter"?

I think these $5 sticks may make hydrogen water, but they look like an all singing all dancing product that does several things — according to the eBay blurb, they: alkalize the water, add they trace minerals (microelements) to the water, and possibly add colloidal silver to the water (since it mentions something about "nano silver powder")?

It does not explicitly say in the eBay blurb that it produces hydrogen water; it just has the word hydrogen in the product title.

If you were going to buy hydrogen water stick, I guess the safer option would be the Dr Hayashi product, as this is specifically advertised as a stick to make hydrogen rich water.

It says here:


According to this webpage, the Dr Hayashi stick produces a H2 concentration of 0.4 to 1.5 ppm. And the webpage says:


If you want to try to create your own stick, you can buy 99.9% or 99.99% pure magnesium rods on eBay for around $2 each. I bought a couple of such rods (10 cm long, 2 cm wide) a few months ago. When you put these magnesium rods into tap water, very tiny bubbles of H2 do appear on the surface of the rod, but the bubbling is so very slow that I cannot imagine it is going to dissolve much H2 into the water. The reaction formula is:

Magnesium + Water —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Hydroxide

Mg + H2O —> H2 + Mg(OH)2

However, when I add some malic acid to my water with the magnesium rod in it, then you do suddenly get a lot of bubbles of H2 gas being produced, and a much more vigorous reaction. But this is a different chemical reaction: it's now a reaction between magnesium and malic acid:

Magnesium + Malic Acid —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Malate

Mg + C4H6O5 —> H2 + MgC4H4O5


What I can't understand is how the Dr Hayashi stick apparently produces such a vigorous reaction between the magnesium and ordinary water. The Hayashi stick I don't think uses any acids, since you just place it in water. You only need to leave the Hayashi stick in water for 20 minutes to prepare your H2 water. I am guessing the Hayashi stick must have some sort of catalyst to make magnesium's reaction with water faster.

The Hayashi stick blurb I quoted above says: "A reaction between the magnesium and the water in the presence of far-infrared rays causes the production of hydrogen". So they are saying that far infrared light is the catalyst. But this sounds like a pseudoscientific marketing phrase.


Anyway, it is possible to react your $2 magnesium rod with malic acid, citric acid or acetic acid (vinegar), as that is how the guy in the video I mentioned earlier makes his 3.5 ppm hydrogen rich water.

By the way, at time code 13:25 in that video, it shows you how he uses the methylene blue drops to accurately measure the H2 ppm concentration in his hydrogen water.

Apparently, the digital ORP meters that you see some people use to gauge the strength of their hydrogen water are not an accurate way to determine H2 concentration, according to the MHF.

I've got the methylene blue drops and I'm going to test my bottle and report back! So cool.

 

[Hip]

I've got the methylene blue drops and I'm going to test my bottle and report back! So cool.

Did you manage to find some methylene blue drops specially made for testing hydrogen water? Or did you make the drops up yourself?

Apparently there is not just methylene blue in the drops, but also colloidal platinum, which just acts as a catalyst to allow methylene blue to react with the H2 in the water. That what it says in the study I linked to earlier.

It is pretty cool that there is such a straightforward method of measuring H2 concentration.

 

[Remy]

Did you manage to find some methylene blue drops specially made for testing hydrogen water? Or did you make the drops up yourself?

Apparently there is not just methylene blue in the drops, but also colloidal platinum, which just acts as a catalyst to allow methylene blue to react with the H2 in the water. That what it says in the study I linked to earlier.

It is pretty cool that there is such a straightforward method of measuring H2 concentration.

Put the cart in front of the horse, didn't I? I just came back to say it was a bit more involved than I'd originally hoped.

 

[Hip]

Put the cart in front of the horse, didn't I? I just came back to say it was a bit more involved than I'd originally hoped.

You can buy colloidal platinum as a health product, so it should not be too difficult to make these methylene blue drops. I have some methylene blue here already, as I was testing it a few years ago for possible health benefits. I also have some colloidal silver, colloidal gold, but alas no colloidal platinum.

 

[cherubim]

Y

Are you referring to the $5 sticks I mentioned and pictured above, that are sold on eBay under the title "Alkaline Water Stick PH Alkalizer Ionizer Hydrogen Minerals Wand Purifier Filter"?

I think these $5 sticks may make hydrogen water, but they look like an all singing all dancing product that does several things — according to the eBay blurb, they: alkalize the water, add they trace minerals (microelements) to the water, and possibly add colloidal silver to the water (since it mentions something about "nano silver powder")?

It does not explicitly say in the eBay blurb that it produces hydrogen water; it just has the word hydrogen in the product title.

If you were going to buy hydrogen water stick, I guess the safer option would be the Dr Hayashi product, as this is specifically advertised as a stick to make hydrogen rich water.

It says here:


According to this webpage, the Dr Hayashi stick produces a H2 concentration of 0.4 to 1.5 ppm. And the webpage says:


If you want to try to create your own stick, you can buy 99.9% or 99.99% pure magnesium rods on eBay for around $2 each. I bought a couple of such rods (10 cm long, 2 cm wide) a few months ago. When you put these magnesium rods into tap water, very tiny bubbles of H2 do appear on the surface of the rod, but the bubbling is so very slow that I cannot imagine it is going to dissolve much H2 into the water. The reaction formula is:

Magnesium + Water —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Hydroxide

Mg + H2O —> H2 + Mg(OH)2

However, when I add some malic acid to my water with the magnesium rod in it, then you do suddenly get a lot of bubbles of H2 gas being produced, and a much more vigorous reaction. But this is a different chemical reaction: it's now a reaction between magnesium and malic acid:

Magnesium + Malic Acid —> Hydrogen Gas + Magnesium Malate

Mg + C4H6O5 —> H2 + MgC4H4O5


What I can't understand is how the Dr Hayashi stick apparently produces such a vigorous reaction between the magnesium and ordinary water. The Hayashi stick I don't think uses any acids, since you just place it in water. You only need to leave the Hayashi stick in water for 20 minutes to prepare your H2 water. I am guessing the Hayashi stick must have some sort of catalyst to make magnesium's reaction with water faster.

The Hayashi stick blurb I quoted above says: "A reaction between the magnesium and the water in the presence of far-infrared rays causes the production of hydrogen". So they are saying that far infrared light is the catalyst. But this sounds like a pseudoscientific marketing phrase.


Anyway, it is possible to react your $2 magnesium rod with malic acid, citric acid or acetic acid (vinegar), as that is how the guy in the video I mentioned earlier makes his 3.5 ppm hydrogen rich water.

By the way, at time code 13:25 in that video, it shows you how he uses the methylene blue drops to accurately measure the H2 ppm concentration in his hydrogen water.

Apparently, the digital ORP meters that you see some people use to gauge the strength of their hydrogen water are not an accurate way to determine H2 concentration, according to the MHF.

Yes - they're the sticks I saw on eBay. So they state in the title they're Hydrogen Sticks, and don't produce hydrogen - so I'll skip trying one - it sounds dubious. Dr. Hiyashi's sticks are around $69. I'll research more before I put that money out. I think Veet was going to contact the sellers to ask them about it.

This is the only way I've come across so far to raise SOD. I tried SOD with gliadin, and woke up with a headache - so that's out. French scientists used extramel melon with success, but I wasn't sure the US brands worked -unless someone encapsulates it somehow. I may look further into that.

What were you using methylene blue for, and did it work?

 

[Hip]

Dr. Hiyashi's sticks are around $69. I'll research more before I put that money out.

Perhaps the electrolysis-type machine that @Remy is using may be a better, simpler and cheaper option. It probably produces a slightly lower ppm than Hiyashi's sticks, but I guess you can just drink more of the H2 water.

This is the only way I've come across so far to raise SOD. I tried SOD with gliadin, and woke up with a headache - so that's out.

Have you looked at tempol, the only antioxidant known to mimic all three types of SOD, including SOD2 in the mitochondria?

What were you using methylene blue for, and did it work?

MB boosts mitochondrial complex IV, but I had bad results with it, explained here.

 

[cherubim]

Thank you very much! I can't believe it. I typed in Tempol and came across a chemical company that sells everything I'm looking for: Nrf2 activators, anti-inflammatories, and all the processes I'm looking to impact. There were so many that were applicable that I'm waiting for them to open to call. I'm anxious to try it. I hope to God it works - I've been pretty much pushed past my limits of endurance.

Veet - I hope you look into it, as you're looking to stop inflammation too. It looks like a good bet. The one company that sells tempol has a lot of anti-inflammatories.

I didn't know there were three types of SOD, so I'm grateful for your knowledge. Hip, do you know of anything that stops vascular ischemia by any chance? I've been using arginine/citrulline to induce NO but it hasn't worked yet - so I just upped my dose. From what I understand from research, I have inflammation in my vascular system, (almost everyone here probably does to some degree) which is causing ischemia/ repurfusion. When repurfusion takes place, ROS is generated, causing the damage to be self-perpetuating. I'm trying to break the cycle. I've been taking s-acetyl-glutathione, and now I'll try the tempol for SOD. I've been taking a lot of antioxidants, but from what I learned, I need to induce the body's own antioxidant system: SOD, glutathione, and catalase.

I was reading on Mercola's site that different antioxidants have different body systems they target - so I was looking for a comprehensive antioxidant, and haven't found one yet.

 

[cherubim]

Your experience with MMS was interesting but I used to know that deep fatigue where performing the simplest tasks seemed overwhelming. So the one-word answers are understandable - and it is sometimes misinterpreted as rude.

Have you improved your mitochondrial function yet? If so, can I ask what you used? I'm targeting every possible system, and one is the mitochondria. I take ubiquinol and just started NT factor. I was also surprised to find that SIBO initiates a lot of inflammation. I don't have the symptoms, except possibly one, but I thought I'd hit every possibility.

 

[cherubim]

Hip - do you know where you can order tempol from? I was told by two that they only sell to research facilities.

 

[Hip]

I typed in Tempol and came across a chemical company that sells everything I'm looking for

Which company is that? The two places I know that sell tempol are: https://irc.bio/product/tempol-bulked/ and http://tempol.info/tempol-sources/

do you know of anything that stops vascular ischemia by any chance?

Unfortunately I don't know anything about that. I know that nicorandil is one of the few nitrate drugs that you don't build up a tolerance to. I tried it for my ME/CFS, but it did not help. I found 1 or 2 grams of potassium nitrate had some positive effects though; this boosts NO. You get this sort of dose of nitrates in beetroot juice.

 

[cherubim]

I placed an order with a place in CA that sold it cheap, but they cancelled my order because of it being a residential address. So I ordered it from Innovative Research Compounds. The link you just gave. It was more expensive than the place in CA but I badly need it. I'll be living healthy in a cardboard box.

I'll look into the other sources in case I need to order it again.

I tried the beeroot and it didn't stop the ischemia - but thanks. I think if I can get the vascular inflammation to stop - which the Tempol might do - the ischemia will stop.

Searching for the tempol opened up a lot of new possibilities - I found so many things at one supply - but when I called he told me they only sell to research facilities. I wanted to try a pharmaceutical strength Nrf2 activator - such as what I read about in one research journal.

 

[Hip]

This article talks about the natural antidepressant effects of ghrelin (the hunger hormone), and how drugs that stimulate ghrelin could in future be used as antidepressants.

Since hydrogen rich water stimulates ghrelin secretion, it may have mood boosting effects via this mechanism.

 

[Veet]

Do you notice a worsening of your symptoms in the rain by any chance?

No.

It's become hard to access Pall's stuff, now that his site is gone.The ProHealth link worked for me, and it has a pretty good list. here it is again:
http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=17947

Longinevix: unfamiliar to me. My search shows it as male, testestosterone enhancer. The French Melon I used was Resverage brand. What I switched to was Japanese knotweed, sold as powder by my local ebay merchant.

It turned out that the vendor that I thought was selling 3 different H2 products was merely an Amazon page listing 3 products from 3 vendors. So no comparison info available. Having read Hip's posts, and then the following, I'm pretty confused. Yes the sticks are better. Or, yes, the electronic produces less bubbles but works better, and you can drink more....Or, my head's just barely functional, and I've misunderstood.

@Hip

Excellent info. Thank you.

I also have methylene blue, but w/o the platinum. I haven't found any benefits from the MB.

 

[cherubim]

Thanks - it came up. I can't believe he's trying to downregulate NMDA receptors - that's another target I'm trying. I bookmarked it and am going to go back to it to read it thoroughly. I'm a little concerned about the theory he states about antioxidants having the potential to be dangerous - I'd read it before. I started on multiple antioxidants. I'm praying the SOD will work when I try it. I appreciated your knowledge Hip.

Maybe I mistyped the name - I would not be looking for a testosterone enhancer. I wanted to try the French melon, but didn't think it would make it past digestion.

I can't grasp what's true or not either with the hydrogen sticks. I came across it again while researching, and it would be something good if you can figure out which one works.

 

[Remy]

FWIW, I have both the bottle and the premade drink packs. I haven't noticed any difference between them despite the fact the drink packs have slightly higher H2. I feel pretty comfortable just using the bottle and drinking a little more.