GracieJ

Active Member
It is often helpful to me to at least read up on what people are coming up with for theories, as it is like the blind men and the elephant. As hopeful as I am that answers are found before I am 90, in the meantime I have to work and earn a living, and any little teeny tiny hack to make that easier, I am all over it. I learn something new each time, no matter how out there the theory is.

So... can anyone direct me quickly to whoever is doing vagus nerve research for ME? I will have to sit down and do a Google search.

At the same time I do not buy this theory as a cure-all, I am busy today brushing up on vagus nerve impingement from a massage therapist viewpoint. I had a really cool discussion with another therapist today. Which parts are the horse and which are the cart is an interesting discussion. If it yields me another ah-ha moment of increased function, it is of value to me to have found it.

@Victor Maalouf We are a tough bunch to cross! Don't stop thinking about what you have pursued. Just ask all the hard, open questions that could answer if this is a piece, a secondary effect, etc. of the disease states. I am still going through your videos, with one big question in my own mind - why is this impingement present in these people?
 

Victor Maalouf

Active Member
what did you do to fix the dislocation of your upper thoracic cage?
I haven't made the video on that yet. Still working on how to explain it. From my paper,

Over time I improved on a stretching method, developing a skill set of feeling and memory to make progress as fast and efficiently as possible. I expanded the range of muscle fibers, started alternating between left and right shoulder, up into my neck and jaw, then all the way down. The shoulders were always the most dense and difficult. It turned into a routine guided by subtle shifts in the tightness of muscle fibers I learned to feel for, jumping from one connective tissue knot to the other. I was going to call the method “circuit breaking” or “knot busting,” but I’ve heard similar methods simply called “intuitive stretching,” which sounds much more intuitive.
Are you looking at "normal" people for these patterns?

I have worked on hundreds, if not thousands, of people with massage therapy. Thoracic anomalies and shoulder imbalance are common across all walks of life, yet not everyone has one of these illnesses.

Are you completely recovered? No MCS, POTS/OI, PEM, mitochondrial issues, MCAS, abnormal heart rhythms, muscle and joint pain, leaky gut and digestion issues, candida, headaches, eye problems, energy deficit, sleep disorders, seasonal and temperature issues, adrenal anomalies, need to pace, etc.?
Yes, many people have imbalances, but from what I've seen, there are specific features of it in people with these syndromes. In CFS/ME for example, everyone has a slight scoliosis and a flattened thoracic spine, according to Dr. Rowe, Dr. Violand, and Dr. Perrin.

I still have at least 5 separate tears in my body. One occurred doing weighted dips, the other 4 happened on their own while going about my day. They appear to be why for so long I kept sliding back into symptoms. So I do have some muscle/joint discomfort, but mostly negligible. Because I still haven't completely stabilized the jamming of my right shoulder, I'm still somewhat at the whim of the collapse. Because of the tears I may never become completely symmetrical, simply because I'm missing pieces now. I suspect many with CFS/ME have at least 1 muscle tear, even if they're not aware of it. I've heard several cases where the person suddenly discovers a tear at a doctor visit and had no idea when/how it happened.

Because of that, exertion probably takes more out of me than other "fit" men my age, but I can still do Belegarth, a hobby of medieval combat fighting with padded weapons/shields/etc, intensely for a whole afternoon. Soreness the next day will probably give me some kind of exhaustion or "PEM," but it won't last more than a few hours and the next day be gone. No need to pace, but there are things I need to avoid. I sit as infrequently as I can because it still subtly has the potential to aggravate my back and hip, draining me some. I stand at my computer now, though even that isn't perfect. I don't lift heavy weights much, but that's a whole other issue. I prefer more functional exercising like playing basketball or Belegarth because you move more along with how your body is supposed to, rather than arbitrarily lifting weight for no reason.

I used to have most or all issues you listed, but the rest are completely gone. Also, I must say that in some ways I feel better than I ever did. Certain breathing and other discomforts are gone. Anxiety completely gone. I was ADD and my mental functioning had actually been declining for years before my collapse. My clarity in general is better than I ever thought possible.

Cause - I do not agree. Cure - no. Great tool for alleviating/mitigating symptoms? I'm with you on that one.
Imagine what would happen if you were able to keep alleviating/mitigating symptoms. Then, alleviate/mitigate some more. Somehow manage to hold that progress, then alleviate/mitigate some more. Couldn't that add up to a cure?

@Victor Maalouf We are a tough bunch to cross! Don't stop thinking about what you have pursued. Just ask all the hard, open questions that could answer if this is a piece, a secondary effect, etc. of the disease states. I am still going through your videos, with one big question in my own mind - why is this impingement present in these people?
HAH! Don't I know it.
 
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Victor Maalouf

Active Member
So... can anyone direct me quickly to whoever is doing vagus nerve research for ME? I will have to sit down and do a Google search.
From my paper;

"Low Heart Rate Variability (LHRV) and The Vagus Nerve

Many studies have shown people with CFS/ME have something called Low Heart Rate Variability (LHRV) (C.20/21/37). Though I was never tested, I definitely had LHRV after my injuries. For more than half a year it felt like my heart wasn’t responding properly to exercise or excitement. Its rate wouldn’t elevate. I couldn’t get excited, even when with a very attractive girl. I couldn’t pump myself up to work out or maintain a proper erection. However, my heart rate would sometimes elevate on its own, awakening me from sleep.

The relief of my LHRV was directly tied to progress made in my left shoulder in the first 7 months of stretching. Before then, almost every night I would awake about 5 hours into sleeping. The body has its own automatic process of stretching and restoring depleted connective tissue. Once it would reach the thick tough tissue primarily in my left shoulder, it would get stuck, constrict my physiology and put my body in a state of panic, increasing heart rate, and waking me up.

I repetitively experienced re-stretching the shoulder alleviated the uncomfortable panicky state and allowed me to fall back asleep. One night I achieved a ripping deep in the left side of my chest somewhere underneath my pec major. Immediately, my heart rate skyrocketed higher than it had in a long time, accompanied by an automatic proper spontaneous erection.

How exactly the collapse affected my heart, I have guesses: 1. Scar tissue was directly connected to my heart or nearby fascia, applying an abnormal physical tension. 2. Neurological tension emanating from my shoulder affected part of my heart rate via neuronal connections like the phrenic nerve, similar to how heart attacks are sometimes accompanied by left arm pain, but reverse. 3. The collapse causes an impingement, compression, or excessive tension on the nerves or other connective tissue that makes its way to the heart. 4. Given that my heart rate increased simultaneously with my erection (with no supporting stimulus, by the way), I suspect the vagus nerve, and its role both in regulating heart rate and blood flow to the genitalia, was affected.

The Vagus Nerve is involved with most organs from the neck down to the colon as well as some speech muscles. It composes a large part of the parasympathetic nervous system, the “branch” that has to do with automatic functions like rest and digest, innervating the heart, and sexual arousal, among other things. That moment my heart rate elevated and erection erected simultaneously tells me the vagus nerve was directly affected. Besides my diminished heart rate and sex drive, impairment of the vagus nerve could also contribute to why it used to feel more difficult than it should to speak due to its involvement with speech muscles. I also salivate a hell of a lot more now.

emedicine.medscape.com Vagus Nerve Anatomy page;

“The left vagus crosses in front of the left subclavian artery to enter the thorax between the left common carotid and subclavian arteries. It descends on the left side of the aortic arch, which separates it from the left pleura, and travels behind the phrenic nerve.”

That is just about exactly where I would feel pressure dissipate from my chest (underneath my pec and clavicle) during the moments of more intense symptom relief. The close location of arteries adds the possibility that the collapsed shoulder can restrict blood flow to and from the brain, contributing to brain fog and inflammation. The left thoracic (lymphatic) duct Dr. Perrin believes is compromised in CFS/ME is also in the same area.

Michael B. VanElzakker proposed in 2013 that CFS/ME may be caused by a vagus nerve infection (C.38). If the vagus nerve is involved in CFS, I believe it’s a mechanical or neuromuscular interference rather than an infection."
 

Victor Maalouf

Active Member
Anyone else have this sort of thing? I've always wondered if it might be connected to my current state. Now I'm wondering if it could be connected to the muscular skeletal dysfunction described here. I do get shoulder pain/cramps, but not "frozen" shoulders.
I never had "frozen" shoulders either, just restriction of the more peripheral ranges of motion in my right shoulder. For example, I can't crawl my hand up my back as far as my left.

Please do not assume you are the person who has finally gotten the answer to ME.
Ha, that seems to be a fairly common symptom!
HAH! I think I've already made that decision. But I'm actually not the only one.

@Victor Maalouf I don't know if you answer this in your videos but 2 questions about your theory.
First: Why so many people have a onset after Mono and second why some people get better with anti-viral?
I don't know. Obviously the immune system is impaired in CFS/ME. But, from what I've heard in the studies, the improvements from antivirals haven't been all that great or lasting. It's just a question of which comes first or is more of a contributor.

Obviously people can have chronic infections, and people with CFS/ME probably have more than others, but I think the damage and impairment of such a severely collapsing musculoskeletal system and the effects it can have on every major system in the body is what weakens the immune system and allows these infections to prosper.

I actually think Mono/GF is not driven by Epstein-Barre Virus. I think it is everywhere and can take advantage of impaired breathing. When the shoulders and lungs collapse like this, it creates pockets in the lungs that aren't ventilated properly, allowing infections and air pollution to sit there. Same as with muscle tension traveling up the throat into the mouth. This is mostly speculation made from various observations, mostly that everyone I've personally seen who has had an EBV infection has imbalance in the shoulders, which in some cases I know began before the infection. I'm talking just a few people, though.

On the other hand, the severity of a true respiratory infection can damage/alter the breathing apparatus. Having to breath harder or "in the chest" could lead to the type of compromised breathing pattern in many with CFS/ME.
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I wonder as well how this ties with Rowe's findings of problems with tendon capture or elongation...It seems that in many of his patients if they move in directions that cause them to elongate their tendons they feel pain and have signs of inflammation. I believe that he thinks that the musculature gets kind of frozen into place.

He treats it with physical therapy designed to loosen it up and allow the tendons, I think it was the tendons, to elongate normally. That helps patients move around better. He says that the physical therapy he employs is the one thing patients always want to do...

That certainly fits with my experience....Somehow this is all going to go together some day...
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I never had "frozen" shoulders either, just restriction of the more peripheral ranges of motion in my right shoulder. For example, I can't crawl my hand up my back as far as my left.




I don't know. Obviously the immune system is impaired in CFS/ME. But, from what I've heard in the studies, the improvements from antivirals haven't been all that great or lasting. It's just a question of which comes first or is more of a contributor.

Obviously people can have chronic infections, and people with CFS/ME probably have more than others, but I think the damage and impairment of such a severely collapsing musculoskeletal system and the effects it can have on every major system in the body is what weakens the immune system and allows these infections to prosper.

I actually think Mono/GF is not driven by Epstein-Barre Virus. I think it is everywhere and can take advantage of impaired breathing. When the shoulders and lungs collapse like this, it creates pockets in the lungs that aren't ventilated properly, allowing infections and air pollution to sit there. Same as with muscle tension traveling up the throat into the mouth. This is mostly speculation made from various observations, mostly that everyone I've personally seen who has had an EBV infection has imbalance in the shoulders, which in some cases I know began before the infection. I'm talking just a few people, though.

On the other hand, the severity of a true respiratory infection can damage/alter the breathing apparatus. Having to breath harder or "in the chest" could lead to the type of compromised breathing pattern in many with CFS/ME.
I like the compromised breathing pattern and upper body muscle tension in ME/CFS - that fits me to a T!:cool:

HAH! I think I've already made that decision. But I'm actually not the only one.

Be Proud! :playful:

When I rub on my sternum to loosen it up - my left jaw pops! That's been going on for decades....

Somebody has got to explain why there's all this upper body tension...

Maybe Victor will be one of those who do...
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
This is intriguing

The Vagus Nerve is involved with most organs from the neck down to the colon as well as some speech muscles. It composes a large part of the parasympathetic nervous system, the “branch” that has to do with automatic functions like rest and digest, innervating the heart, and sexual arousal, among other things. That moment my heart rate elevated and erection erected simultaneously tells me the vagus nerve was directly affected. Besides my diminished heart rate and sex drive, impairment of the vagus nerve could also contribute to why it used to feel more difficult than it should to speak due to its involvement with speech muscles.

I have so much more trouble speaking....and sometimes speaking actually hurts.....it's like painful echo chamber in there sometimes...:inpain:
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
The first Intro video gives a very short explanation.

Basically, there are common patterns of musculoskeletal dysfunction in everyone with this wide spectrum of pain, fatigue, cognitive dysfunction, and other common co-symptoms (comorbidities) like IBS, MCS, sensory gating issues, headaches, sleep difficulty, imbalanced gait, etc.

There is one main pattern that almost everyone appears to have some variation of. In my largest presentation I characterize it as a shoulder girdle imbalance/collapse/dislocation. One shoulder "collapses" forward while the other is "jammed" backwards. As an analogy, they become like wringing out a towel or ripping apart a piece of paper, radiating compression and tension forces up and down the body. This compression can affect nerves, organs, circulation, breathing, intracranial pressure, etc, and the tension can cause connective tissue tears, even muscle tears that worsen the twisting throughout the body. These sites of compression and tearing are the various places symptoms can be produced, a range of many possibilities, all contributing to the total package of these syndromes.

The shoulder that is jammed or retracted backwards is frequently the site of an injury (like an AC tear) or restricted range of motion, like frozen shoulder. The side of the body on the forward collapsed shoulder frequently grows incredibly dense with muscle tension and scar tissue. Many with CFS/ME can often feel one side of their ribcage is painful to touch, restricted even.

The mechanism behind the on/off and traveling features of many of these syndromes is the instability of this mechanical warping. The body constantly struggles to remain stable, but shifts in and out of configurations due to the "dislocation" across the shoulder girdle and injuries and how muscle tension dissipates and jumps from location to location. In the case of CFS, this tension can contribute to "locking" the upper torso, keeping the person stuck in a compromised state.

Some people may have hip and/or low back pain, almost always on the same side of the "jammed/retracted" shoulder, opposite to the forward collapse. This pain/weakness can lead to an asymmetrical gait. Of course, not everyone is the same, but the features of the main pattern are surprisingly consistent across individuals.

There are other signs, indications, and specific mechanics that I go over in my videos and paper I'll release soon. These are mechanical, musculoskeletal problems at their root. Correcting these mechanics, general asymmetry, and stabilizing the body, primarily in the shoulders, is how you in effect, cure these symptoms.

In the 4+ hour long compilation I've put together, there are some examples where people improved drastically with certain kinds of physical therapy. My main goal with that video is to make it so that ANYONE can clearly SEE these patterns in each person, and themselves if they have one of these syndromes.

**It is not just the shoulders that are involved, but from what I've observed, they are the prime indicators/drivers of this particular pattern in people with these syndromes. The dysfunction potentially travels throughout the body, "twisting" the core, neck, head, hips, even feet.**

**Also, restricted range of motion or pain in the shoulder is a transient issue, and not always present. Some people are not even aware of an issue until many years into their illness progression or recovery. The specific mechanics require more specific attention/explanation.**
Can you say specifically what kinds of physical therapy have helped?

Didn't know this kind of thing could cause increased intracranial pressure...
 

Tammy7

Well-Known Member
I know this post will probably not be met with any kind of seriousness but it's all I have to share. For the last year I have been learning about how to heal cfs from Anthony William...................who is a medical medium. I know I know..............everyone is rolling there eyes just about now. Anyway I am getting my life back thanks to his suggestions. The point though that I wanted to make in this post is that Anthony says Frozen shoulder is due to the shingles virus. (please no tomato throwing)
I've had frozen shoulder once and I do remember feeling more fluey than usual before and around the time I started to feel the horrendous pain in the shoulder so I don't think it sounds too farfetched.
 
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Hope

Active Member
@Victor Maalouf Thanks for the huge amount of work you've put into your report. Your attention to detail is remarkable. I appreciate hearing anyone's experiences of improvements and try to learn from each one. I too had frozen shoulder syndrome before becoming ill, but not sure how that's meaningful.
Good luck with continuing to improve.
 

Victor Maalouf

Active Member
@Victor MaaloufWhy so many people have a onset after Mono?
The point though that I wanted to make in this post is that Anthony says Frozen shoulder is due to the shingles virus. (please no tomato throwing)
I think there's a big question about the nature of common viruses. How much do they initiate illness and how much do they take advantage of vulnerability? The greater part is undoubtedly the taking advantage. Otherwise, we'd see everyone getting sick all the time because the viruses are everywhere.

Take @Jamison Hill for example: http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...weightlifters-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-story/

Looking at his Personal Trainer before pictures, you can see he already has the beginnings of the pattern I'm talking about. His upper body slants/leans to his right, and while sitting on the medicine ball his right shoulder and arm twist and lean far forward, while his left shoulder retracts. If you find his profile picture down in the comments section, he is in the same position, hunched over, right arm laying across his stomach.

Now, looking at his more recent picture with his arms at his side, you can see his right is protracted forward compared to his retracted left. Looking at his pecs, his right is puffier, while his left is more stretched back. You can see it in the imbalance in his nipples. In fact, everyone with these syndromes has a difference in "nipple elevation..." :hungry: lol... that you can see just looking in the mirror. The retracted shoulder draws the pec, skin, and nipple tighter/higher across the chest, which, for me, is why or because that's the side where I have some tearing.

What happened after Jamison crashed? He was diagnosed with Mononucleosis, supposedly caused by EBV. Except, from my perspective, his crash was clearly clearly absolutely definitely NOT caused by EBV/Mono. We can clearly see the warping of his body began before the crash and supposed infection occurred. So why the hell was he diagnosed with Mono and left at that? This is the point where I could go on a mini-tirade about how stupid our medical system can be sometimes, but that's a whole other discussion.:wacky:


Jamison and I were almost exactly the same. I was studying to be a personal trainer, doing intense Crossfit workouts at the gym 3/4 days, and in most ways felt better than I ever had, except was extremely aggravatable, tended to pace back and forth for reasons I wasn't sure of, and occasionally lashed out at people.

When I did those weighted dips that tore my chest, I was grinding them out extremely quickly because I felt so good, possibly because I was angry/frustrated about something, definitely in a manic state. Jamison had a similarly intense mentality, describing himself as "being in a zone." It's why I don't like heavy weight-lifting anymore (one reason at least), because it's a mindless activity with no purpose, risking unnatural movements just for the pointless sake of lifting a weight.
 
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Victor Maalouf

Active Member
Can you say specifically what kinds of physical therapy have helped?
I described some of it in my paper, but I'm still thinking about how to describe it and the mechanics in general in a video. There are many aspects. I'm borrowing a camera and living situation is up in the air real soon. I just wanted to finally get all this out first.
 

Justin

Active Member
I dont even know how to reapond to this....i found some of the videos disturbing and sad.

I have issues with posture/imbalances from hockey, weightlifting, hiking and not to mention injuries.

Have you ever been stuck in bed for a couple weeks not able to move much?

Even better are you a Dr of some sort?

How many of these 150 people did you have an opportunity to go over their personal health records with?

Doesnt youtube pay a percentage to people that get so many views on their videos?

I cannot take this seriously though I feel aspects of pain can be caused by muscular and joint imbalances and the muscle facia being all out of wack.

Being bedridden and deconditioned will do this to you depending what side you sleep on.

Further its been proven that IGF1 and many other anabolic hormones decrease or their binding proteins work incorrectly as a result of the disease leading to muscle wasting and a disappearance of muscular tone.

I just dont even know what more to say about these videos.....
 

GracieJ

Active Member
@Justin

I stopped watching after reading through the paper. Videos are painful enough anyway.

It seems he has identified for us another area of pain associated with chronic disease, an area where something can be done to help. In the case of the videos/paper, the cart seems to be sitting in front of the horse, IMO.

My personal takeaway now is self-awareness. Who knows? Maybe structure has more of a role in sickness than is recognized. I use a lot of energy medicine personally with great results. Decades of it are not placebo response. I also apply it with clients who want it - and they get off my table thinking I just performed a miracle. It is not foo-foo, just unexplained science. Very amazing. Add in what @Tammy7 has been saying about viruses messing with the joints, and there is much to think about for pain control.

He was kicked off another site. In the interest of tolerance, free speech, and free discussion, let it play.

I came to this kind of forums four years ago after being on the ProHealth chat since 2001. They changed up the format, FB rose up, and chat rooms died. I really, really missed the support group I once had. So I see the forums as a support group, not true forums with overly strict and/or dogmatic rules of debate. It gets so ugly when the mud starts to fly.

Bottom line is, we do not know at this time who has what true pieces. We can guess, but no one can say who is going to have the correct answer. As noted previously, Semmelweis was ridiculed and dismissed for decades when he was completely right. I do not think @Victor Maalouf has the answer or correct hypothesis, but I am learning valuable pieces for my own journey as I explore my own new thoughts about structural anomalies and the roles those play in disease and health.

I think he would be wise to re-package his ideas as ways to address connective tissue pain and dysfunction in chronic illness.

@Victor Maalouf What does your "knife fight" video have to do with this?

And... you obviously never had mono.
 
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Victor Maalouf

Active Member
Have you ever been stuck in bed for a couple weeks not able to move much?
I was bed-ridden about 2/3 of every day for several months. I could hardly walk without a crutch.

I dont even know how to reapond to this....i found some of the videos disturbing and sad.

I have issues with posture/imbalances from hockey, weightlifting, hiking and not to mention injuries.

I cannot take this seriously though I feel aspects of pain can be caused by muscular and joint imbalances and the muscle facia being all out of wack.

Being bedridden and deconditioned will do this to you depending what side you sleep on.

Further its been proven that IGF1 and many other anabolic hormones decrease or their binding proteins work incorrectly as a result of the disease leading to muscle wasting and a disappearance of muscular tone.
I'm guessing you have some femuroacetabular impingement (FAI) from hockey, inability to squat without generating pain/damage/fatigue in the front/side of your hip? Probably on the side of the arm you held your stick further down with? FAI is extremely common in hockey players. The reason I compiled that video presentation is to show that there are very predictable musculoskeletal patterns in everyone with these syndromes that you can see.

What is difficult to believe about these injuries and musculoskeletal distortions lasting in the body and causing the extreme pain and fatigue? Everyone clearly has some degree of injury. The worst cases tend to have the worst injuries. I had one of the worst cases of CFS you can get. At least 5 muscle tears, extreme multiple chemical sensitivity, IBS, pain, at times fibromyalgia, photo-sensitivity, poor/unrefreshing sleep, etc etc, obviously couldn't exert without feeling like I was going to throw up, and was rapidly getting worse.

Doesn't the fact that you feel better or worse depending on which side you sleep on mean there is a mechanical effect at work? Isn't the side you prefer to sleep on the same side of your hip pain? Or on your stomach with a pillow underneath that hip side? Doesn't sitting cause more fatigue than standing? I know because I was just like that. If this structural difference between your left and right sides is great enough to effect how refreshed you feel waking up, why is it hard to believe that it could account for the rest of the fatigue, pain, and other symptoms?

Doesn't it make sense that muscle-wasting may be occurring because your body is in a state of chronic injury aggravation and has to use up resources to constantly heal vulnerable tissue?


Doesnt youtube pay a percentage to people that get so many views on their videos?
I don't have my videos monetized, and never will.
 
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Victor Maalouf

Active Member
@Justin In the case of the videos/paper, the cart seems to be sitting in front of the horse, IMO.
I don't get how that analogy applies.

He was kicked off another site. In the interest of tolerance, free speech, and free discussion, let it play.
Thank you :D

I think he would be wise to re-package his ideas as ways to address connective tissue pain and dysfunction in chronic illness.
How so? I'm very open to suggestions. Everything I've presented so far is just the observations/theory part. I'm developing my explanation on how best to recover now.

@Victor Maalouf What does your "knife fight" video have to do with this?
It's just an example of how far I've recovered. The foundation of my theory is my experience, plus the observations I've made in everyone else with these syndromes.

And... you obviously never had mono.
Never said I had. But my point earlier was that I think many who are diagnosed either didn't actually have it or the real factor to the "Mono illness" wasn't the introduction of EBV, but the person's physiological vulnerability to it. That was just based on a few observations, and I wasn't surprised when it turned out to fit Jamison Hill's story too.

It's part of my hypothesis/theory that many of the "flu-like" or respiratory illnesses that purportedly "trigger" ~80% of CFS/ME cases aren't actually driven by infection, rather, it's the phsyical tissue damage and structural shifting within the body that generates the flu-like/respiratory symptoms

I'm sure CFS/ME in general can include some interplay with viruses. Damaged tissue may provide a perfect place for infections to reside. They may even contribute to some themselves. However, the point of my video is that these syndromes are not merely a microbiological phenomenon. They are larger, macro, structural issue at the root cause.

If you can't see the bigger picture, all of the little measurements and observations doctors and researchers make are useless. Haven't we learned that after decades of no progress?
 

Cort

Founder of Health Rising and Phoenix Rising
Staff member
I know this post will probably not be met with any kind of seriousness but it's all I have to share. For the last year I have been learning about how to heal cfs from Anthony William...................who is a medical medium. I know I know..............everyone is rolling there eyes just about now. Anyway I am getting my life back thanks to his suggestions. The point though that I wanted to make in this post is that Anthony says Frozen shoulder is due to the shingles virus. (please no tomato throwing)
I've had frozen shoulder once and I do remember feeling more fluey than usual before and around the time I started to feel the horrendous pain in the shoulder so I don't think it sounds too farfetched.
Good for you Tammy and I appreciate your courage in putting that out there ;)
 

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